Relationships are always at risk of drifting apart if you don’t do anything to stop it. Today’s guests are a couple who consciously chooses to keep their love alive, rather than sleepwalk through their relationship. They share their challenges and give you tools and perspectives to stop love from fading or falling apart.
If you’re not satisfied with your love or sex-life, and could use some insights into what makes a person want more of you, tell me more about yourself here and we’ll schedule a time to talk.
Stop a Relationship From Drifting, Fading, or Falling Apart: Show Notes
It’s so easy to drift apart in a relationship. We don’t get the lovey-dovey honeymoon chemical cocktail forever. Responsibilities pile up, and our bodies age. Family and friends need caring for…
If we don’t take the reins of a relationship, drift happens!
But you can turn this around, and even create a stronger connection than you ever had. It takes some commitment, and some honest conversations, but I know it can be done and talk about it on this week’s Practicing Love podcast. I was joined by Alyson and Tripp Lanier. Alyson is a relationship and intimacy coach, and Tripp is a men’s coach and host of the popular New Man Podcast. I’ve known them for almost two decades, and they are one of the strongest and most inspiring couples I know.
The three of us talked about how to consciously engage in a relationship so intimacy doesn’t fade. We discussed important topics like…
- Tripp’s epiphany that he needed to grow up for his relationship to thrive
- Recognizing a relationship as a living, breathing organism that we need to tend, so it doesn’t die on the vine
- The practice of “keeping the streets clean” (Sex doesn’t happen without it)
- Why complaints are smoke, not fire, and what to do with the actual fire
- How to stop sleepwalking through a relationship
- Getting on the same team, rather than being adversarial
- What to do when we feel threatened by each other’s interests
- How to hear each other fully
- Holding your center and remaining an adult in moments of disconnection
- How assumptions create pain
- The necessary practice of self-awareness
- How to make commitments, even before you know how to make them happen
When you’re done with this one, check out this episode with Tripp on Man Alive on Peak Performance!
And if you haven’t taken my new quiz, go here to see what keeps you from having the best love and sex of your life. It only takes 2-5 minutes.
Links:
Connect with Shana James
Get a Free copy of Honest Sex: A Passionate Path to Deepen Connection and Keep Relationships Alive.
Whether you’re dating or in a relationship it shows you how to take the self-doubt, struggle and shame out of your love life.
Curious what you’d need to become a better leader and lover? Take the quiz
For Women: Modern dating doesn’t have to be a nightmare for women
Connect with Alyson and Tripp
Bio:
Alyson Lanier is a multifaceted expert at the intersection of psychological and spiritual healing. With a 30 year career in Psychotherapy that includes a BA, MA, and LPC in psychology, Alyson supplemented her education with extensive training and certifications in attachment work, Gestalt therapy, Transpersonal psychology, Shambhala Buddhism, internal family systems, and Psychedelic assisted psychotherapy. Her professional journey encompasses over 50,000 hours of therapeutic experience working with individuals, couples, families, children, and adolescents across clinical and private settings.
Tripp Lanier is a professional coach, author of This Book Will Make You Dangerous, and host of The New Man Podcast: Beyond the Macho Jerk and the New Age Wimp, which — for over a decade — has been downloaded millions of times. Since 2005, he has spent thousands of hours coaching people all around the world to get out of the rat race, become an authority in their field, and make a great living doing the work they were put on this earth to do. Over the years he’s designed several businesses to support a simple lifestyle focused on freedom, ease, meaning, and fun.
Transcript
Shana James (00:02)
Hello and welcome to this episode of Practicing Love: Have the best love and sex of your life after 40. I’m your host Shana James and I am thrilled to be here today with Tripp and Alyson Linear. Tripp and Alyson and I have known each other for at least 20 years at this point. We kind of grew up together in our young adult lives.
Tripp and I have been in touch through business, but Alyson and I just realized we haven’t talked since we’ve had our babies, and it’s been probably 14 or 15 years. So it’s amazing to see both of you and have you both here. And one of the reasons I’m thrilled to have you here is because you two are kicking ass I would say, at relationship. And you’ve always been a strong couple, even back in the day. And to know that 20 years later you’re still doing it, and you still look happy, and you still love each other. It’s really inspiring for people. So thank you so much for being here and for all that you’ve done to make that happen.
Alyson Lanier (01:09)
Thank you so much for having us.
Tripp Lanier (01:11)
Thanks!
Shana James (01:13)
Anything you want to say before we get into the struggles? How you define your relationship right now or how long you’ve been together, or any details you want us to know, or that would be fun to share.
Alyson Lanier (01:27)
Tripp, you’re probably gonna make a joke, but I would say it’s valuable to hear that we’ve been together for 20 years – going strong for 20 years. Navigating having a kid and raising a kid and moves and losses and gains and all of that.
Shana James (01:52)
It’s a long time, and to actually thrive for all of those years, with whatever ups and downs you’ve been through, it’s a feat.
Tripp Lanier (02:03)
Yeah, we’ve been through seasons too. We’re different in a lot of ways than who we were when we met. And I feel really fortunate because there could have been a point when we grew apart from one another. And I just felt that we have come closer together in a lot of ways, especially these last few years.
So that’s unexpected. I mean, she and I were very independent coming into this relationship and kind of viewed it like – if we make it to 10 years, awesome. But I don’t think we had super high fantasy world expectations that marriage and life was gonna be the end all be all. So I think we got into this tentatively, even though I would say we were very committed to one another, not knowing just what could happen.
Shana James (02:47)
Interesting.
Tripp Lanier (03:00)
And I think it was a big question mark. I feel like I’m painting a bad picture there. But I think it was just a cautious optimism.
Shana James (03:02)
Yeah, I can feel the paradox. You were committed and also it sounds like you weren’t stuck in the box of till death do we part. If we’re not happy here or this isn’t going well, we’re not going to just fucking be miserable and stick it out.
Tripp Lanier (03:24)
Or this happily ever after. I think we both knew we were in for a ride when we signed up for this. And we were both very committed to going on that ride together.
Alyson Lanier (03:34)
Yeah, I would say committed, and engaged, and unattached. So I think what I’m hearing from you Tripp, which resonates for how I believe you’re speaking and how I believe we’ve held it, is that we didn’t have a big pretext of what marriage life was going to look like.
We didn’t paint a picture, didn’t go in with a lot of expectations in terms of okay, now we’re married. Now it’s going to be like this, or now our relationship is like that. We didn’t subscribe to any of that and I think that was what has benefited us over the time, because we weren’t bumping up against massive disappointments, because we didn’t hold some sort of pretext, a kind of conventional created what this needs to be. So, I think that actually saved us in a lot of ways from a lot of unnecessary pain.
Tripp Lanier (04:32)
And I mean, what had me excited to commit to this in a marriage was that one of the vows, one of the things that we promised, is that we were there to support each other to be our biggest, better versions of ourselves.
And so the idea that we were going to be the thing that got in the other person’s way, or that essentially cut us off from what had us feel more alive or more whole…that’s the fear of getting into a relationship or into a committed relationship is that somehow this is going to diminish me or weaken me in some way. so knowing that that was really the commitment to one another, it was relaxed.
And so even if there was an element of, gosh, this means I need to get out of the way. It’s scary, but it was better than, nope, you’re strapped to me no matter what, and we’re going to be fucking miserable and you’re going to carry my purse at the mall kind of a thing. And it’s like, no, I’m not going not going down that road.
Shana James (05:12)
Well, one of the things I love is that you two made that commitment. It was a commitment I made for my marriage as well. And we chose to end that marriage or transition into co-parents at this point. But we too recognized that that form was better for us. I really admire that you’ve been able to ride those waves. And I guess one question I have is that without the pre-framed, this is what marriage looks like, how did you create yours?
Was it – we’re gonna sit down and intentionally say, what is marriage to us? Or is there an annual way you’re creating things? Or how does it happen?
Alyson Lanier (06:10)
Well, it started before we got married, of course, with laying a really solid foundation of what kind of relationship and how we’re going to be in relationship with each other. So there was a lot that happened before marriage showed up. But I would say that largely, in line with what Tripp’s already named here. He jokingly said, not just till death do us apart, but we consciously did not have vows like that.
We wrote our own vows, those vows were rooted in central tenets that were our core values, to do with what kind of relationship we want, what kind of marriage we want. And we have stuck by those vows. We will live into them daily. And if we need to remind ourselves or each other of them, we can and we do. And loving each other into their best self is part of the vow. It’s like, whether it works for me, whatever he’s got going on, if it lights him up and brings more wholeness into his spirit and his being, I’m committed to supporting that.
Shana James (07:30)
You support that. You’re committed to supporting that. Which is beautiful and doesn’t always happen.
Tripp Lanier (07:34)
But she said it ends at death. She said that we’re not soulmates after this.
Shana James (07:40)
After this lifetime, that’s it. You’re done. She’s like, whew, geez.
Tripp Lanier (07:42)
She’s fucking done with me. She said: we’re good, don’t come find me.
Alyson Lanier (07:48)
You’re taking things out of context. He digresses. You’re such a shit. I didn’t say that.
Tripp Lanier (07:53)
I heard you loud and clear. Don’t come and find me.
Shana James (07:53)
Obviously humor is part of how you’ve kept this relationship alive.
Anything you want to add, Tripp, to how you’ve created this relationship?
Tripp Lanier (08:13)
I noticed that I was very committed. I wanted to be with you, Alyson, and I wanted to create a life with you. I felt so certain about that, which I’d never ever felt about anybody else that I’d been with. And I remember leading up to our wedding and our marriage and just feeling like a passenger because of this kind of cultural convention of what a marriage is. And I was like, fuck this, this is not what I want.
And so, it really was about, what would this relationship really mean? What am I really putting both feet into in this regard? And so we’ve alluded to that. But it required me to do something I don’t see a lot of other guys doing, which is taking responsibility. What do I what? What am I really committing to here? And I’m going to put that on the table here. And I’m going to go online and download some vows. It was really just taking the work and doing the work and making the effort to say: This is what I’m committing to. And this is what I’m asking you to commit to.
Shana James (09:14)
Awesome. So at some point before the wedding, it sounds like you woke up and realized, okay, I’m not going to be a passenger here. I’m actually going to be generating, creating this.
Tripp Lanier (09:21)
Even though I was very happy and very, very much a yes, it still wasn’t explicit. And I think making it explicit was extremely important.
Shana James (09:34)
I think that’s a huge lesson I’ve learned – explicit versus implicit. There can be all these things that are implicit, but if they’re not explicit, and it’s not a shared reality between the two people, then there’s so much wondering or confusion, and it doesn’t create a stable foundation for people.
Tripp Lanier (09:57)
I thought marriage meant this or that. Then I though, no, we gotta get on the same page! And that can be scary. A lot of folks don’t wanna rock the boat. What if we’re not on the same page? And I see that a lot with my own clients, as they’ve been with somebody for maybe five, ten years and they’ve grown. Their partner may be on a different path. So this feeling of gosh, we’re just don’t even have a shared foundation anymore around what we care about and what we value in one another.
And that’s terrifying for them. And they’d rather not address it. Most of them have a really hard time just going into it and saying, “hey, what if we hit a refresh, and what are our hell yeses? And can we build from there instead of just staying in the box that we created many years ago?”
Alyson Lanier (10:47)
You actually named it, Shana. I think many people we work with, that we also know socially, actually don’t even get to that point of, “hey, are we still on the same page?” Or even, “hey, is this lighting me up right now?”
Or “I’m noticing that I’m digging this way of connecting with you sexually better than that way,” or whatever. People don’t really necessarily talk like that to each other. so getting to the place where suddenly we’re in different worlds, and we are going to go different ways, that can be an assumption often times that hasn’t been checked out because it just hasn’t ever been brought up.
Shana James (11:35)
I think that’s what I really appreciate about this midlife phase, where I see people waking up out of a trance like – I did the thing with the white picket fence, the kids, the whatever. And wait a minute, who am I and what do I really want?
And there are so many more challenges, with kids and body and all kinds of things, but it also feels like it’s a really beautiful opportunity to say, “okay how do I want to live the next half of my life, or the next phase of my life, and what is real for me and what’s real for you, and how could we do this together?”
Tripp Lanier (12:25)
Right, or do we want to do it together?
Shana James (12:27)
Right! I try to support people who come to me to go for together first, but to also hold that you might not want to do this together. And that’s OK, too.
We talked a little bit before we started recording about one of the struggles you’ve faced and are practicing with, around not letting the “WE,” or the couple, die in the midst of the rest of life – the parenting, the scheduling, the health concerns, the world falling apart, the hurricane, all the things. Can you talk a little bit about that struggle? And, before we get to the learnings and solutions, what is hard about keeping that alive for you?
Alyson Lanier (13:19)
I think it’s important to start from the beginning there, which may take a little bit more time. I want to name it because it was really pivotal for me. And so we had our daughter. She was probably eight months old when this conversation happened. Or maybe a year, but we’d had a baby. I quit working. We moved across the country. I was away from all of my social network and support network in terms of people in person who were able to do that with me. And while I was raising her in those really hard years, where she’s kind of her neediest, and I’m at my weakest and also neediest probably.
And the decision that we had made to move was rooted in, if we’d stayed where we were, I would have had to keep working and I really didn’t want to, I really wanted to parent full time. And so I threw myself into being a full time mom. And I’m sure you well know, Shana, what it’s like in our nervous systems as mothers when our babies are crying or when our babies are needing something or when just that sort of radar where even if they’re okay, there’s a huge part of us that is with them energetically and psychically, and so I was really fully in it with her.
And fumble fucking my way through as well. And I remember all of the hormones as I was sort of in a postpartum depression, and also just hormonally such a strong mama bear kind of thing with her, where often I would want to push Tripp away. His style of parenting wasn’t working for me, and I had my judgments around how he wanted to parent or not parent, or whatever.
And so there were a lot of nonverbal, unconscious things going on that felt hormonal, felt biological in a lot of ways, which was really interesting and surprising to me. What I remember is how easy it was to keep doing that day in and day out – being consumed with her.
Even if there was a moment for Tripp and I to connect, I remember having moments where I would just physically turn my attention to her, or I’d talk about her instead. In a moment where we could have just been us. There’s no need to bring her in, but I would. And I remember feeling like, well, that’s just where I’m at.
And there was a day where Tripp sat me down. I don’t remember, because this was many, 13 years, almost 14 years ago, but so I don’t remember verbatim, but he sat me down and squared up right next to me.
He said, I am not willing to let us die on the vine in the same breath as, of course we’re going to raise this child with everything we have. Of course you’re going to be totally zoned in on her. He was really understanding that I was where I was, but also saying “we are just as important.”
And I remember being like, there’s no fucking way. There’s no way I have more bandwidth than what I already am doing. I can’t possibly do more with another right now. But of course, I loved him. And he was right. And I knew he was right.
And that was the start, I think, of that big transition and growth and hardship where I realized, yeah, it’s us. We’re doing this. We’re carrying the flag for what’s here. And him anchoring that value for us really did wonders. Tripp, you have a knack, even though you don’t like confrontation, when you need to, you sack up.
Shana James (18:01)
Amazing. And it could be such a challenge to say that. I see that too. I can see where you, Tripp, have the capacity to say something that can be challenging, with a whole lot of love and understanding. Like, hey, I’m not saying that you shouldn’t have your full attention on this baby right now. And there is a WE. And if we don’t make it, she doesn’t get to have us. Or if we don’t make it, here’s what’s gonna happen!
Tripp Lanier (18:50)
I think If I had made it about the symptoms – we don’t do anything anymore, you don’t have sex with me, you don’t do these things… If it had come across as complaints –That’s the smoke. It’s not the fire. It’s not the it’s not the genuine concern. The genuine concern is “we’re drifting apart here. We’re going into autopilot.”
We’re starting to sleepwalk through this and that’s not acceptable. And so the genuine thing I wanted to get across was “I love you and I care about us, and that’s what we’re here to do,” instead of going through this list of all the shit you’re not doing well and pile it on top of all the responsibilities you already have, because that would have just closed the door and it wouldn’t have worked.
Shana James (19:29)
Right. It would have just crushed her. And I just heard you say, “I love you and I care about us.” That’s a very different tone than “f* you for not being who I need.” or even “I’m hurt.”
You can be hurt. You can be all those things, but yes, the fire, not the smoke, is that sense of “I love you. I want to be with you. want I want to make this work for us.”
Alyson Lanier (19:59)
Yes.
Tripp Lanier (19:59)
Right, and having compassion. I don’t know how the fuck we’re gonna do this. But we need to. We need to figure this out.
Alyson Lanier (20:06)
Yeah, we need to figure this out. And that was essentially what you said” “we need to figure this out.” And that also helped. It was like, “I don’t have all the answers. It’s not that you’re not enough and I’m just standing over here tapping my foot with my arms folded. But we need to figure this out.” And so we did.
I go back to that story long ago because, while I felt really strong with that value before going into all the other things, like when we were dating, engaged and newly married – that’s fun and it’s it’s fucking easy compared to bringing a freaking baby in the world, and moving across the country, and you all sorts of things that hormones do, and life stressors, right?
He was having to come up with two incomes. There was just a lot going on, a lot that could take us away from each other. And so I wanted to mark that time because that was pivotal as a way to codify the value, almost tattoo it into our hearts, that this is a value of ours. And we’ve held that up through and through.
Shana James (21:28)
That’s what I was just going to say too, is that’s amazing, because you can codify that. And then you can five, 10 years later say, “Hey, we had this conversation. This was really important to us. What happened?”
It sounds like you’ve managed over time to keep that as a priority, and to keep that WE. I love the question: How can we do this together? How can we be on the same team? Not: how can you fix this?
Tripp Lanier (21:55)
It’s the temptation is to get into an adversarial dynamic. Well, if she just did more of this and more of that. If you just did more of this and more of that. And to get into that instead of, all right, we signed up for this.
We’ve signed up for this challenge and we’re in it now. So let’s go through it together. Let’s be on the same team here, instead of add another layer of of hardship on top of it. And that always helped me feel better – being in this together, facing these challenges together instead of thinking: these challenges shouldn’t be happening, or they should be easy if only my partner just did A, B and C. And I think that’s an easy thing to do, which is make somebody else responsible for all this discomfort and these hardships.
Shana James (22:45)
Yeah, I think it’s especially easy to blame if you’re the quieter one, or there’s someone else who’s stronger in the relationship and is calling the shots. You might think, I’m not doing it, but there’s the choiceless choice too, right? Whatever side of the dynamic you’re on, you are creating that dynamic.
Okay, so what else? Tell us about like some of the struggles over the years of maintaining the WE, which will probably also get into some of what you’ve learned and how you’re practicing.
Tripp Lanier (23:23)
I’m trying to think of where that shows up. I mean, now that our daughter is becoming more independent, we’re waking up like, wow, we have more time for ourselves individually. And so there’s also rediscovering – who am I now on at this stage? And then how does that impact the relationship that we’re in?
Shana James (23:47)
…which could be threatening. It’s exciting, but also could be threatening to some people.
Tripp Lanier (23:51)
Yeah, I’m convinced Allison’s gonna leave me for a 75 year old beekeeper. I gotta keep an eye on these guys.
Alyson Lanier (24:00)
For a what?
Shana James (24:05)
Is this an actual person in your life?
Alyson Lanier (24:05)
Do you have one in mind? Can you introduce me?
Tripp Lanier (24:10)
I’m keeping an eye on these guys. I mean they can’t walk very well, but they know a lot about bees and that’s a big, big turn on for her. And I can’t compete there.
Alyson Lanier (24:21)
I’m, really into beekeeping right now.
Shana James (24:23)
Wow, nice.
Alyson Lanier (24:25)
You are speaking to something that is much more current, which is, our daughter is becoming more independent. She finally – I feel like I have to just put a little bit of my developmental teaching hat on.
So, teenagers shift their primary attachment from their caregivers to their friends, their social network. So she’s doing that. She’s right on time in doing that. And I’m hugely supportive of that happening. Not only because I know that developmentally, she’s on time, and that’s what should be happening. And I really like her friend network. she’s got a good thing going on with that.
Alyson Lanier (25:21)
But it’s giving me more freedom. I’m noticing I can see my life again, coming back. I can have my own life again. So I have been really excited about this and I think as she has started to transition in that way from the nest more, I too have transitioned from just circling the wagons around the three of us. And I’m now more like, OK, what do I want to get into? What am I interested in? What do I want to renew, refresh? What energizes me, and what enlivens me in the world as far as me being in the world again instead of feeling like I’m just at home?
And I have been working the whole time, but largely my primary commitment has been home and the family. So Tripp has really felt that. And it has been threatening to him.
Shana James (26:33)
Okay, as you’ve had a new sense of, there’s a world out there – I could focus on other things. My kid doesn’t need me and I’m not necessarily going to put all that energy back into our relationship. I’m going to take some of it and go with it.
Alyson Lanier (26:40)
Yeah, because I still have a certain amount of time in a day before I’m back on duty again with her, or with householding, or that sort of thing. And so what I noticed is that time where historically it was totally fine to just kind of fuck off and be with each other, and just kind of be waiting for him whenever he was available, away from clients or whatever…Now I’m more like, well, I got my own thing going on, and I want to go do this. I’m actually not available for you, So I think he’s really felt that.
Shana James (27:30)
Do you want to say anything about that Tripp?
Tripp Lanier (27:46)
I would say that it was when we weren’t talking about it. I was like, “what the f’s going on?” Because the pattern was, if there was open time, then the default was that we would get together, you know, and do those things.
Alyson Lanier (28:03)
We’d be fucking, to be clear. Or going out on dates or having lunch together, or whatever.
Tripp Lanier (28:12)
I prefer making love!
But the idea was just that it was a different behavior and it was like, wait a second. What’s going on? And the part that was threatening was me living in a world of assumptions of thinking, wow, I guess she doesn’t value this or want this anymore.
Once we talked about it, and got on the same page about what is happening and what it looks like going forward, it was like, OK, we’ll work through this. This is fine.
Shana James (28:30)
So one of the practices, it sounds like, is actually being honest and transparent about what’s going on. But before we get to that, I’m just wondering, Tripp, because I could see a lot of people being threatened in a way when their partner has something new they’re excited about – worried maybe they’re gonna leave me – can you say a little more about some of what was going on in your mind, or how it felt threatening?
Tripp Lanier (29:14)
I think that if it was left unchecked, there was a concern of, in the same way I was concerned earlier on, that we would go into autopilot, and from here on out, we just become ships in the night.
Shana James (29:18)
Got it. Separate, not the WE anymore.
Tripp Lanier (29:31)
Separate worlds. You’re doing your thing. I’m doing my thing. But we don’t really have a WE anymore. And I didn’t want that.
I was very clear that I didn’t want that. So the concern was, maybe she wants that. She’s highly independent and maybe she’s just done. Maybe she doesn’t want a man period. Doesn’t want this in her life period. She wants a dog and beehives and her garden and I can go f off. So that was the fear. And that may still happen.
Alyson Lanier (30:04)
Yeah, I was gonna say, you still have that fear.
Shana James (30:08)
It’s so powerful to distinguish that. And then to take that fear, and instead of, like you said, bringing all the smoke and the complaint – the “I’ve supported you or in this way for these many years and now you’re just going to run off…,” to be able to consciously say something that is more vulnerable, like “I’m a little bit nervous about this.”
Tripp Lanier (30:31)
Right. Or, what’s going on here? And what’s happening going forward? I think that’s how we’ve handled it. We asked: “What does it look like for you? What’s your yes?” And I think just coming back to that the fear is, when we have those conversations – What if this is it? What if we’re entering into the next phase, and the next phase is separate?
Shana James (30:46)
That is a big reason I hear from clients who come to me and say, ”I don’t want to talk about it,” because what if this means the end? But then there’s enduring the discomfort, the distance, the separation that’s already there.
Tripp Lanier (31:10)
I can’t tolerate that. Yeah, I f’ing hate that shit. So I don’t. We get right into it.
Alyson Lanier (31:10)
Yeah, they’re already creating distance. Neither of us tolerate that very well. That’s a really tough place.
Honestly, I don’t really know how other people do it the way they do it. I have next to zero tolerance for that and and so does Tripp. We are a mess if we let it go for more than like a few hours, or day at most. We get really dysregulated. It doesn’t work to not talk about it.
Shana James (31:52)
Okay. So the main practice sounds like talking about it.
What else are you practicing, or how else are you actually maintaining the WE in the midst of all these transitions?
Alyson Lanier (32:02)
One of the pivotal practices is let’s play a game called “clear it up.” We clear things up all the time if we need to, so clearing things up, continuing to make sure that we are clear and have a shared reality.
I think for him, when he was at a point where he was starting to realize that he was creating some assumptions, and therefore feeling hurt and scared, he was able to have the self-awareness. So that was a big practice that I was really grateful for, that he had the self-awareness to be like, my God, this is what’s going on for me. I’m afraid of XYZ. Instead of blaming me with you, you, you…
And then, for me to really hear that and to listen, not just to what he’s saying, to really hear what he’s saying to be able to reflect: “it sounds like you’re scared that this value is on the chopping block.” And to tell him: I’m not going anywhere.
Shana James (33:11)
Right? You could hear that and reflect that back, instead of being threatened and going down some kind of defensive shame spiral and attacking back, or pulling away.
Alyson Lanier (33:17)
Right.
There’s a lot of nuance, and extra kind of skills we’re not speaking to, but I had to hold center, had to remain an adult. I needed to not go into my childlike place of either shame or protective places and continue to really be present with what was going on over there. So in some ways, interestingly, even though it was about me, I had to be able to not make it about me, to be able to stay in the real conversation at hand.
That is a practice, because it really is a skill that gets built. To be able to hear what’s really coming across the bow, and fortunately we have some real central tenants, that were our vows and one of them is to always be in contact, always come back to each other, and so I could hear that that value was getting threatened.
And that he was concerned that that value was up for the chopping block. So to be able to say, I’m not going anywhere, and to also be honest and say, and yes, my attention is shifting. And I’m not going to be at your beck and call, which he didn’t like. He doesn’t like when I say that because it’s not for him. But for me, largely I was holding it that way. And so the practice for me, it’s really pragmatic.
One another practices is just to name, here’s what this day or this week looks like. And I say that because we both work from home. And so we have the luxury of fucking off if we don’t have appointments. We could we can actually just kind of hang out together or have sex or play or do whatever we want to do with each other instead of turning towards our own lives, and so the practice for me is communicating, okay today I I’m going to be over here. I’m not going to turn towards you today at least for this amount of time.
vShana James (35:36)
In that way, you’re contextualizing – I am going this way or I am taking this kind of space. It doesn’t mean I’m leaving you. Here’s when I’ll be back or here’s what this is gonna look like. So it’s not a surprise.
Alyson Lanier (35:57)
Exactly. Which is an attachment theory thing. A little teachy moment – if you’re in a fight, one of the things that I talk to my clients a lot about is if you need to take space, by all means take space. Don’t make it worse, but let them know you’ll be back! Look in their eyes and tell them. Let them know you’ll be back. So it is rooted in that.
Tripp Lanier (36:32)
I think the thing I would add is, in any relationship, if there’s been a norm developed, and then that starts to change, and it’s not discussed, then the stories can come up. So I think that’s how it felt to me. The norm was: this is what we do. We normally do it ABC.
And then there wasn’t a discussion and she was just gone off here and there, and it was like, what does this mean? So let’s clear it up. On the surface, it’s not that big of a deal, but it would be kind of easy to be like, huh, this is different than what we normally do. So what does this signify? And just getting it cleared up makes it much, much simpler. And then I can spend my time trying to derail her and get her back to doing…
Alyson Lanier (37:24)
Which you definitely do and sometimes really succeed at.
Tripp Lanier (37:32)
I sound like this needy bitch but…
Shana James (37:36)
I was going to say more like an asshole than a needy bitch, but no, you know, I mean, and this is.
Tripp Lanier (37:43)
It’s been a great interview, I really appreciate it. Shit. And this guy just sits around the house and waits for me all day. Cries if I don’t come home. What a little bitch.
Shana James (37:53)
And demands that I come to him. Ha ha. It’s a good thing we know who you really are,
Alyson Lanier (37:59)
Lol. That’s exactly right. There is one other piece that feels like an active practice. I’m sure there’s more, but one thing that feels like an active practice that I know that I can fall out of, and Tripp helps with, is anchor us back to the WE space a lot. And he does a good job. I’m thankful for it.
You started this interview saying, with all the things – kids, there’s parenting, kids’ schedule, our schedule, work schedule, hormones and healthcare, and there’s just all of these pieces and moving pieces at that, moving plates, spinning plates…
And I can get swept up in just keeping the train on the tracks, like just keeping it moving. I mean, I did just spend an hour with scheduling shit to. Jesus. The planning…
Shana James (38:54)
Yes, this morning I only got through one month of the basketball schedule and it took me 20 minutes to get it all entered into the calendar. Are you kidding me?
Alyson Lanier (39:03)
Yes, exactly. Then juggling, OK, well, if this, then that and OK, well, then that can’t happen. This needs to happen over there. I’m spending a ton of time doing that.
And I can tend to fall into just just making that happen. Like, let’s just let’s just make sure things are running smoothly and what that can do, because that I’m just focused on keeping the train running in that way.
Shana James (39:14)
It takes so much time.
Alyson Lanier (39:31)
Tripp’s like, do you realize that we have all but one night that’s free this week? He doesn’t want to live life like that, and I’m like, but the kid, and the…and he has other things and and so that’s one way very pragmatically that I love that he can anchor the value back to us, so then when I look at the schedule, I can keep that in mind and think, OK, wait a minute. Where’s the downtime for us as a family?
Shana James (40:01)
Where’s the downtime? Where’s the WE time?
Alyson Lanier (40:03)
Where’s the WE time for him and I? Where’s the WE time for the three of us? I’m missing the days where nothing is planned. You know, it’s like that needs to now be planned. that we need to have boundaries so that can happen. And he’s great at that. He’s great at that. Yeah.
Shana James (40:24)
This is incredibly helpful because I think it’s something every couple I know has struggled with or told me that they struggle with. The balance of WE with the rest of life, and how to make sure the WE doesn’t die on the vine. It’s not like we’re throwing out the children, or not paying attention to them – the schedule or not making the health appointments – but there has to be time for W if you want the relationship to thrive. So I appreciate you both standing for that.
Tripp Lanier (41:01)
I want to insert one thing. I think that if the WE eclipses the individual, then it’ll also fall apart.
And so we’ve talked a lot about the WE thing, but one thing we haven’t talked about is how much we do nurture our own individuality, because when we go do the things that feed us, whether it’s taking care of our bodies, or for me being in the ocean, or for her be beekeeping and whatever. We bring that energy into it. So if somehow the WE is weakening who we are as individuals, then we’re in a spiral there that there’s only so much that can happen.
There’s a whole other discipline here of what are we doing to take care of ourselves individually, so that we’re…
Shana James (41:45)
…keeping ourselves self alive!
Alyson Lanier (41:52)
That’s a huge piece. I didn’t bring it up, but I’m glad you did. In terms of a struggle, I’m largely more introverted than he is, and I like to have alone time to recharge. And I mean ALONE, like everybody out kind of alone.
Shana James (42:04)
Yeah. I think that’s one of those silent in the background things, where if you don’t realize that I have to take care of and nourish myself, I have to feel alive and vital, then that can be confusing.
If the WE time isn’t feeling exciting, or I don’t feel like I’ve got any energy for WE time, then we have to start to look back at the alone time.
Tripp Lanier (42:29)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Shana James (42:33)
Thank you both for being amazing examples of a relationship over the decades that is thriving and conscious and loving and playful, and where you both get to be yourselves. It’s rare sadly. I would like it to be less rare, and I think you two would like that as well for people you work with. So thank you for being a living example.
Tripp Lanier (42:58)
Thanks, Shana.
Alyson Lanier (42:58)
Thank you so much, Shana for doing what you do for all the folks out there that want it.
Shana James (43:00)
Thank you. Any last wrap ups and then we can say where to find both of you?
Alyson Lanier (43:12)
Just thanks for your work in the world.
Shana James (43:13)
Great. Yeah. Okay. So where can people find you and your work and you know, if they want more of you?
Alyson Lanier (43:20)
My website is getting revamped but AlisonLanier.com is good. Or just email me.
Shana James (43:35)
Awesome.
Okay, we’ll put your email in the show notes and Tripp I know you have the New Man podcast and you have a book and
you’re working on the second book.
Tripp Lanier (43:52)
Working on the second one. Yeah, it’s in process.
Alyson Lanier (43:57)
Yeah the book is more working on him
Tripp Lanier (44:02)
If anybody’s interested in the work I do with people, you can just go to tripplanier.com.
Shana James (44:02)
Awesome. Thank you both.
Alyson Lanier (44:10)
Thank you so much.
Tripp Lanier (44:10)
Thank you, Shana.
Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!):
https://uppbeat.io/t/prigida/burble
License code: 15Q3WZOTKSNA4MJM
Podcast (practicing-love): Play in new window | Download | Embed
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | RSS
Leave a Reply