In this episode, Shana James is joined by Joanna Shakti, founder and facilitator of Ecstatic Intimacy, for a rich conversation about authentic connection, emotional depth, and intimacy that doesn’t require shrinking, over-giving, or shape-shifting to be loved.
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How to Have a Deeply Connected Relationship and Ecstatic Intimacy: Show Notes
In my latest Practicing Love podcast conversation, I had an amazing conversation with Joanna Shakti, founder and facilitator of Ecstatic Intimacy for more than 15 years, to explore what so many of us truly want in love:
- ❤️ A deep, connected relationship…
- ❤️ Where we feel fully seen, understood, and desired…
- ❤️ Without shrinking, over-giving, or shape-shifting to be loved
Joanna speaks about what she calls ecstatic authenticity, and how to shift from twisting or hiding ourselves to keep the peace, to honoring who we really are in love, relationship, and lovemaking. From this authenticity, something extraordinary becomes possible:
- ❤️ Deeper emotional intimacy, trust and safety
- ❤️ Soul-level connection and understanding
- ❤️ Ecstatic intimacy — where passion is based in honesty, support and delight
We also talk about the dance of masculine and feminine energy, but not as rigid roles. Instead Joanna holds them as living polarities (like yin and yang, sun and moon) that allow us to have deeper attraction and connection.
Themes we explore in this episode:
- How authenticity becomes the gateway to deeper intimacy
- Why feeling fully seen and “gotten” matters so much in love
- How conscious conflict can turn into communion rather than disconnection
- How to explore the masculine and feminine framework in intimacy in a way that creates freedom rather than “shoulds”
- The conscious path from authenticity ➝ intimacy ➝ ecstasy
If you’ve longed for a relationship where you can be fully yourself, and experience passion, devotion, and connection, this conversation will really speak to you.
Joanna and I are very aligned in our views on conscious love, and I trust the depth of her heart and wisdom, so I’m excited for you to listen to this conversation. When you’re done, check out one of the first Man Alive episodes on the masculine / feminine framework, with teacher Satyen Raja.
Links:
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Connect with Joanna
Bio:
Joanna is the founder of Ecstatic Intimacy where she offers programs, events, and mentoring to men and women that empower them to put the hot and happy back into love. She likes to say “There are too many nice guys who ‘finish last’,” too many successful women who can’t seem to find a great man, and way too many people who find themselves in the friend-zone!”
As the Soul Love Mentor, she is committed to inspiring anyone who hungers for deeper love and intimate pleasure… to find and create a relationship that is an expression of ecstatic authenticity, intimacy and ecstasy.
Joanna combines deep experience in masculine-feminine dynamics with my many certifications including Advanced Certified Tantra Educator, Accredited Journey Practitioner, Certified Partner Yoga Instructor, and Visionary Leadership Coach.
Formerly an Electrical Engineer with an MBA, she now lives life to remind men and women of the power and potential of love – showing them how to reconnect with themselves and each other in profoundly loving, deeply intimate, and ultimately freeing relationships.
You may have seen her as the Intimacy Expert on America’s Got Talent, or in other appearances on Fox, VH1, and Comedy Central. Her specialties are: Male Female dynamics, communication, relating, leadership, cellular healing, conscious relating, conscious sexuality, sacred sexuality.
Transcript:
Shana James (00:02.097)
Welcome to Practicing Love. I’m your host, Shana James, and I am thrilled to be here today with an amazing woman who is the founder of Ecstatic Intimacy. I’m so excited to have this conversation about what ecstatic intimacy is—and all of the parts that are sometimes very difficult to describe, yet something I experience with my clients all the time.
It’s like many people have never experienced this, or even known that it exists.
So welcome, Joanna Shakti. Thank you so much for being here, and thank you for having this conversation—and for bringing this work into the world. I think it names a longing so many people have. Whether they call it ecstatic intimacy or not, it’s that mind-blowing pleasure, satisfaction, intimacy—these things we deeply long for but often struggle to articulate.
Joanna Shakti (00:55.608)
Yes, thank you. Thank you, Shana, for this space and for the show that you hold, so we can have conversations like this. I’m really grateful. And yes, I’m super excited to spend time with you.
Shana James (01:03.336)
Mmm.
Shana James (01:07.251)
Thank you. Can you tell us a little bit about what ecstatic intimacy means to you? And as the founder of Ecstatic Intimacy—what do you actually do?
Joanna Shakti (01:17.408)
Yeah. Interestingly, I’m going to take us from ecstatic intimacy to ecstatic ecstasy for a moment.
The journey I walk with people actually has three phases, and ultimately we’re headed toward what I call ecstatic ecstasy.
Shana James (01:24.061)
Ooh. Okay, I love it.
Joanna Shakti (01:36.526)
And that’s a bit of what you were describing. We’ll talk about ecstatic intimacy, but I want to do it in the context of where we’re headed—why it matters.
When you were talking about mind-blowing experiences, another word I use—and this is where people sometimes get confused—is this idea that it has to be mind-blowing in a dramatic way. Because sometimes it is that take-your-breath-away moment. The awe. The wonder. The indescribable experience.
Shana James (01:43.369)
Where you have it.
Shana James (02:03.869)
Yes.
Joanna Shakti (02:05.578)
And sometimes it’s perfectly still. It’s not blowing the doors off in a visible way—but it’s blowing the doors off what we thought was possible, where we thought we could go, what we thought we could experience.
Shana James (02:14.547)
Yes!
Shana James (02:27.877)
It reminds me—and maybe this is what you’re going to distinguish between intimacy and ecstasy—that ecstasy can be mind-blowing or quiet. And that intimacy of actually being known, understood, felt, attuned to, appreciated, approved of—all of that.
Joanna Shakti (02:46.253)
Yes.
Yes—so fully seen, so fully taken in. When someone really sees us… I mean, is there anything better for our soul? I don’t think so.
And that’s it. So I love to say the third phase is about life, love, and lovemaking. And recently I’ve also been saying leadership—because we’re all influencers. Whoever we’re leading, whether it’s a family, a business, or anything in between, how we’re spending our time…
Shana James (03:03.325)
I don’t think so.
Shana James (03:14.013)
Mmm.
Shana James (03:31.05)
Yes, for sure.
Joanna Shakti (03:31.05)
It truly takes our breath away—who we’re being, how we’re relating, how we’re contributing, how we’re making love. And it’s through relational dynamics that we get to ecstatic ecstasy.
If life, love, and lovemaking that take our breath away is where we want to go—what we’re hungry for, as you were describing—whether we can name it or not, we know those moments. Even if we’ve only had a few.
What I’m committed to with the people I work with is not just a life with a few breathtaking moments, but a breathtaking life.
We’ve all had those touches—those moments in a relationship or an experience—where we know there’s more. We can’t name it. We can’t describe it. But we know this isn’t all there is.
Shana James (04:02.429)
We know the feeling of it. Yes.
Shana James (04:13.255)
Yeah. I love that.
Shana James (04:29.543)
Yes. And I think that’s why so many people in midlife start to wander—or have a midlife crisis—or an affair. It’s like, I know there’s something more than this, even if they don’t know what it is.
Joanna Shakti (04:42.262)
Yes. Absolutely. Even if they don’t know what it is.
And sometimes we shut down instead. We either do all the things you described, or we shut down because it’s like, I don’t know, I can’t figure it out, maybe it’s not for me.
However people deal with it—or don’t acknowledge it—it’s still alive in us.
Shana James (04:57.105)
It’s uncomfortable and painful to know something’s missing.
Joanna Shakti (05:11.918)
Yes. And the more we’re aware of our soul—not necessarily attuned to it yet, but aware—the more this shows up.
We all have a soul expression. We all have our greatest ecstasy. Another way I describe ecstatic ecstasy is that we’re living as our soul. We’re living as who we uniquely are.
And when we’re aligned with that, everything takes our breath away. It’s like, How did that happen? How does this keep happening?
It’s that fullness of expression.
Shana James (05:33.628)
Interesting.
Joanna Shakti (05:40.704)
So now let’s back up. If that’s ecstatic ecstasy, then ecstatic intimacy is what gets us there. It’s the relational dynamics. It’s how we’re relating.
The great sandbox is our romantic partners—or the ones we hope will become our romantic partners. But what are the relational dynamics that are happening?
Are we showing up soul-to-soul?
And if we’re showing up in our soul and they’re not—how do we work with that? If our buttons are getting pushed—because whenever there’s a soulful connection, romantic or otherwise, it will push buttons. It will create friction.
Shana James (06:25.097)
Yes.
Shana James (06:36.711)
I’m wondering if we could go back to the word soul. One thing I find fascinating is that I was part of a community in my twenties where we called ourselves “soul-to-soul.”
We were so aligned in that way—living from our souls. For someone who doesn’t have that language, or who might identify as more conservative, or think, I don’t know what that is—can you describe how you identify or experience soul?
Joanna Shakti (07:13.856)
Yes, I love that question, Shana.
What I would describe as soul is the part of us that never leaves. The part of us that always was. The part of us that isn’t afraid. The part of us that’s completely unique.
Every single one of us comes in completely unique. No one before us has existed this way, and no one after us ever will. That’s part of the pricelessness of who we are, how we live, and who we get to interact with.
That unique frequency—that unique expression—is what I call soul.
And that also means we have things to learn, lessons to walk through. Some people call that karma. We have pain and challenges that shape the experiences through which our soul expression evolves.
But it also means there are very specific joys—very specific ecstasies—that belong to us. Mine may be similar to yours—we have a lot in common—but they still have a unique flavor.
Each of us has our own flavor of ecstasy. And soul is also where we access our greatest joy and fulfillment in life.
Shana James (08:44.253)
Yes.
Joanna Shakti (08:45.804)
So our soul holds both—the challenges and the deepest joy.
Shana James (08:59.379)
So good. And as I think about the power of finding that part of yourself—the true self beyond the shoulds, expectations, family dynamics, cultural conditioning—what I see with my clients, and feel for myself, is that it’s only then that we get to feel truly loved, seen, and understood.
Not for a mask. Not for some way we’re trying to be lovable. But for the actual me.
Joanna Shakti (09:34.627)
Yes. The imperfectly messy human—and the completely brilliant being—simultaneously.
We have our exquisite divine nature, this soul. And no one has to believe in any spiritual tradition to experience this. There is simply a part of us that is brilliant and unique.
And there’s also a part of us that is very human—wounded, unconscious at times, imperfect.
Human love, and the intimacy that creates ecstasy, is about being loved fully in both:
the human and the divine,
the beauty and the mess,
the brilliance and the ugliness—
because we all have it.
Shana James (10:39.879)
We all have it, right? And I imagine for some people listening, it might sound almost crazy.
I feel so blessed to be living this in my relationship right now. And I think there’s still a part of me that wonders—even as I experience it—is this real? Am I really being loved for me? Could that actually be happening?
Joanna Shakti (11:02.089)
Shana James (11:09.543)
What I loved as I was reading through your website and your descriptions is the way you lay out that this is possible for all of us. It’s not just for the lucky few, right?
And that we do have to learn some skills—or unlearn unhealthy dynamics.
Joanna Shakti (11:21.496)
Mm.
Joanna Shakti (11:26.414)
Yes. And that unlearning—what you just named, can I really be this loved for me?—takes us one step further back in the journey, to what I call ecstatic authenticity.
Shana James (11:33.885)
Mm-hmm.
Amazing.
Joanna Shakti (11:40.768)
Ecstatic authenticity is the kind of relationship we have with ourselves.
When I was in college, a guy said to me, “I’m not going to date you because you don’t love yourself. You don’t even like yourself. And there’s no way you can really show up for me.”
And I was furious.
Shana James (11:50.087)
Hmm.
Shana James (11:57.863)
That’s such a punch in the gut—and also, what a gift.
Joanna Shakti (12:00.834)
It took me about fourteen years—and a lot of pain—before I had the aha that he was right.
And it’s not about some manufactured self-love. It’s about discovering: I have things I’m not good at, and I have things I am good at. And I don’t even know all of either yet—we’re blind to some of it.
But there’s a way of coming to know, appreciate, and honor ourselves. To realize that the weaknesses are part of the strengths, and the strengths include the weaknesses.
That creates a relationship with ourselves that’s authentic—where we’re no longer running from ourselves or hiding behind the facades you were talking about.
Shana James (12:04.393)
Yeah.
Joanna Shakti (12:30.06)
And before I talk about the transition from ecstatic authenticity to ecstatic intimacy, let me define ecstatic authenticity a bit more clearly.
It’s:
I know who I am.
I know my needs, desires, turn-ons, wants, and boundaries.
I know my fears.
And I have the capacity to express them—imperfectly.
Shana James (13:18.697)
My fears, my concerns, my triggers—all of it. Yeah.
Joanna Shakti (13:28.738)
And I’m no longer willing to twist myself into a pretzel, settle, or sell out—for anyone or anything.
Because I’m too precious, in all my imperfection.
And I’m saying this in the “I,” but this is true for everyone.
Shana James (13:36.933)
I love this.
Joanna Shakti (13:47.128)
You are too precious not to honor.
But that’s not how we’re conditioned. We’re taught:
Be this way.
You should do that.
If you do this, you’re bad.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Good boys do this.
Good girls do this.
Good people do this.
That’s how we build the facades.
Shana James (13:52.168)
No.
Shana James (14:03.901)
Right. And if we don’t love and believe in ourselves, we twist and pretzel ourselves to become what we think will be lovable, desirable, acceptable. It’s so painful.
Joanna Shakti (14:16.141)
And when we’re doing that, we can never trust the love that’s offered to us.
So the transition point is coming to know our value and worth—our beauty and our mess, our perfection and imperfection—and letting another person see us there.
Shana James (14:19.198)
Mm-hmm.
Shana James (14:43.332)
Yes.
Joanna Shakti (14:44.823)
The moment we let another see us fully is the first moment we’re truly available for love. It’s the first moment we can trust love.
Otherwise there’s always doubt:
If they really knew me…
If they saw that part…
If this came out…
We’re never actually available for the relationship.
Shana James (14:49.961)
Mm-hmm.
Shana James (15:01.321)
One hundred percent.
Shana James (15:05.635)
And we can’t relax. We can’t let go. There’s always tension—I can’t show this part, I have to hold this wall, this boundary…
Joanna Shakti (15:16.973)
Yes. And without that, we can’t have soul-to-soul connection.
Because soul-to-soul is the brilliant dancing with the brilliant—but it’s also the human dancing with the human.
Shana James (15:29.929)
Yes. With love and compassion for the mess on both sides. I can have compassion for my mess and for yours. Neither of us is perfect.
And we get to dance this messy, loving, ecstatic dance together.
Joanna Shakti (15:34.255)
Yes.
Joanna Shakti (15:44.738)
Absolutely. I was just talking to a client this morning about this.
In any challenging moment, there’s the part of us that’s conscious and wise—and then there’s the wounded, unconscious part. Both are present. And our partner has both too.
It’s not always easy to hold our wounded part, hold theirs, express our conscious part, trust it’s actually conscious—and trust theirs as well.
Shana James (15:55.752)
Mm-hmm.
Joanna Shakti (16:14.593)
It actually is a bit of mastery.
And at the same time—and I can feel the emotion as I say this—what blows me away is how quickly we can get to a place that’s not mastery, but is really, really good.
Suddenly it’s like, I didn’t know it could be this good.
And ecstasy starts to show up.
Shana James (16:18.493)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shana James (16:26.311)
It is quite masterful.
Shana James (16:54.825)
I love hearing you say that. There were times in my career where I wondered, How do I help someone have this experience without it taking 25 or 30 years?
Exploring tantra, authentic relating, all of it—how do we offer these tools in a way that doesn’t take decades?
And I can see some of that with my clients. But what I feel from you is how clearly delineated this is—how accessible it feels. And I can feel your belief that we can get there faster than we think.
Joanna Shakti (17:41.496)
Absolutely. And it still blows me away.
I never would have written my life story the way it’s unfolded—not in a million years. I have an electrical engineering degree and an MBA, and I needed that for many reasons.
One woman once said to me, after our first conversation, “It’s like you’re a love engineer.”
She said, “You say things in ways I’ve never heard before. They finally make sense. I can grasp them. I’ve heard these ideas, but I never knew how to make them practical.”
She had no idea I was actually an engineer.
Shana James (18:08.745)
That’s amazing.
Shana James (18:15.805)
You just said that—oh my God.
Shana James (18:27.795)
Take them in.
Joanna Shakti (18:32.973)
And that’s what I love on group calls—when someone comes back and says, This shit works.
They went in thinking, I don’t know if this will work. This doesn’t make sense to my mind.
And then suddenly—Whoa. Look what happened.
Shana James (18:37.085)
I did it!
Shana James (18:49.757)
And that willingness to suspend disbelief. Our minds are so strong—we’re raised to prioritize them.
And in ecstatic authenticity, intimacy, and ecstasy, it’s not that the mind is wrong. It’s that there’s so much more to us.
Joanna Shakti (18:53.657)
Yes.
Joanna Shakti (19:07.501)
Exactly. All the possibilities.
Honestly, I say to people: Is there a willingness to be willing? That can be enough.
It just takes the tiniest crack. If we’re completely shut, there’s nowhere to go. But a sliver is enough.
Shana James (19:22.025)
Mm-hmm.
Shana James (19:27.401)
If we’re shut, there’s nowhere to go.
Shana James (19:36.457)
I remember when I first met my current partner. I asked if he’d be willing to try an authentic relating touch exercise. And he said, “It sounds a little odd, but I’m willing—because you value it.”
And I remember thinking, That’s a really good sign.
We’ve both learned that we’re willing to take any experience—whether it’s messy or beautiful—and find what we can learn, how we can grow, how we can deepen connection.
And that soul-to-soul connection you’re describing—I feel that. It’s: We’re in this together. Whether it’s the mess or the ecstasy.
Joanna Shakti (20:22.352)
Absolutely. And what’s magical about what you’re pointing to—let’s take it one step further—is that some of those moments, like the one you’re describing, are beautiful.
It’s like, Oh, let’s play with this. We’re curious. Oh wow, that’s cool. Or sometimes it falls flat. That didn’t really land. And we say, Okay, we tried it. I’m not sure what we’re taking from this. But we trust the process.
So there are those moments where it flows and it’s easy. And then there are moments where we don’t feel seen, we don’t feel heard, we get triggered—by life or by our partner.
And then the question becomes: What do we do with that?
Because honestly, I feel like that is the most potent aspect of a soul-to-soul relationship.
Shana James (20:38.621)
Totally.
Shana James (20:46.793)
But we tried it.
Shana James (20:57.448)
Yes.
Shana James (21:13.927)
I love this. I love that you’re going here, because this is what takes people out. When we fall into our triggers, end up in our wounded selves, and spiral downward.
How do you help people with this? What are some tips?
Joanna Shakti (21:29.388)
Absolutely. In our second phase—which is actually called Loving Soul to Soul—one of the core premises is that conflict held consciously turns into communion.
We learn how to hold ourselves and our triggers, while also being available to hold another person in theirs.
And when we can’t do that in the moment, we learn how to pause and come back—so that there is space to hear each other.
When we can hold the messy and the brilliant, the wounded and the unwounded, the human and the divine—
Shana James (21:45.32)
Yep.
Joanna Shakti (21:53.457)
—then conflict turns into communion. And the relationship becomes stronger and better because of what we moved through.
And I see this happen over and over again.
Shana James (22:01.192)
No—
Shana James (22:18.579)
That’s so beautiful.
Joanna Shakti (22:21.38)
Then conflict turns into communion, and the relationship is stronger because of it.
Shana James (22:31.177)
Yes. I love this so much.
I’ve often said that every struggle, every conflict, every challenge is a doorway into more loving connection. But I love hearing you use the word communion.
Because when we hold that context—instead of What the fuck? Why is this happening? This must be horrible—it completely changes things.
Joanna Shakti (22:54.88)
Yes.
Shana James (22:55.527)
It becomes: How do we grow through this? How do we find each other through this? How do we love better through this?
And communion is such a beautiful word for that.
Joanna Shakti (23:05.974)
Mm, yes. And as you’re describing this, I’m remembering something from over fifteen years ago.
I was hosting a retreat, and a man came by himself—he was in a relationship, but his partner wasn’t there, which is very common. One person changes, and the relationship changes.
We talked about embracing conflict—not seeing it as a problem, but as something in service to the relationship.
I don’t know what happened the following week, but I ran into him and his partner shortly afterward. And she came up to me and said, That thing you taught him about conflict has changed everything.
Because it was no longer a problem that they had challenges.
Shana James (23:39.657)
Hmm.
Shana James (24:02.193)
Amazing. Amazing.
Shana James (24:15.749)
And when it’s no longer a problem, we don’t need to one-up each other, put each other down, or be right. That dynamic dissolves. It’s so beautiful.
Joanna Shakti (24:15.813)
That’s—
Joanna Shakti (24:24.081)
Absolutely. It’s the power of love. It’s the power of intimacy.
Shana James (24:30.249)
Yeah. Yeah.
This is so exciting. So for someone listening who’s thinking, Okay, I’m starting to understand—there’s authenticity, intimacy, ecstasy—and each of those can be ecstatic, each can be a soul experience…
Joanna Shakti (24:37.56)
It’s so good.
Shana James (24:56.593)
—breathtaking, from life to lovemaking. What else feels important for people to know? We’re obviously just tasting this—we could talk for eons, which I hope we do.
Joanna Shakti (25:09.187)
Me too.
There’s another layer underneath everything we’ve been talking about—the sacred, conscious, divine masculine and feminine.
Every human being—regardless of gender, who we’re attracted to, or the form of our relationship—has both masculine and feminine energy within them.
Those opposite energies are the attractive forces that bring us together. Or they can be the repelling forces that push us apart.
Just like magnets: when opposite energies meet, they come together and stick. But flip one magnet, and they repel—fast.
Shana James (25:36.947)
Yeah.
Joanna Shakti (25:41.754)
And the reason I bring this in is because there’s so much conditioning, expectation, and judgment in our world that shames both the feminine and the masculine.
When that happens, especially in the Loving Soul to Soul phase, we have to look at it.
If we don’t understand ourselves in our masculine and feminine expressions—or understand our partner—then resolving conflict, hearing each other, and moving into communion becomes very difficult.
Shana James (26:06.244)
Mm.
Joanna Shakti (26:47.465)
We have different needs, different communication styles, different ways of processing upset, stress, and emotion.
That alone—before we even get to sex—is huge.
If we don’t understand those differences, we struggle. And I see this all the time.
Beyond self-abandonment—which is a major contributor to failed relationships—the misunderstanding of masculine and feminine dynamics creates enormous disconnect.
People think, Why is she still upset about this thing we talked about years ago?
Well—because she’s processing it differently.
Without understanding what’s happening beneath the surface, communion through joy or challenge becomes much harder.
Shana James (27:49.673)
Wow.
I’m really excited to learn more from you about this. I’ll be honest—I’ve sometimes veered away from masculine/feminine language, especially as gender is understood more broadly now.
I’ve tried to use other words—leader/follower, this pole or that pole. And I think there’s been some hesitation for me.
But what I do know is that when two people heal in completely different ways and don’t understand that difference, it creates rifts that can last years—even decades.
Joanna Shakti (28:59.055)
—and sometimes end relationships.
Absolutely. And that’s why I take masculine and feminine completely outside of gender.
Gender exists on a spectrum. And regardless of where we fall, we all have expansive and contractive energies, directed and receptive energies.
If we go back to the simplest framework—yin and yang—it’s ancient. Out of Taoism and traditional Chinese medicine.
Those two energies explain everything: organ systems in the body, the sun and the moon, electricity moving through circuits, how flowers are pollinated.
It’s everywhere.
And it’s happening in our relational dynamics too—romantic, sexual, business.
And if we look at sex specifically, sexuality is giver and receiver:
Penetrator and penetrated.
Pursuer and pursued.
Ravisher and ravished.
Shana James (30:46.493)
Right, and in any moment, those can switch. They can sometimes merge or blend, or sometimes you don’t know who’s you and who’s the other person. And there are these dynamics.
Joanna Shakti (30:57.424)
Yes, absolutely. And they can blend. What I’ve seen is that in our world, a lot of people want to neutralize those two energies—or rather, they don’t want to look at them as distinct. There’s this idea of saying, “It’s all just one thing.” And ultimately, that is true—we are one being.
But we can’t master the influence of these energies unless we first look at them as distinct. What’s happening because of this aspect? What’s happening because of that aspect?
I actually love working with same-sex couples, because the fluidity between masculine and feminine expression is often much greater than in heterosexual cisgender relationships. There’s still variety, of course. For example—if I’m someone who wants to be up against the wall in a hot, steamy kiss most of the time, and you make me the one facing the wall? I’m not interested. You’re not my person.
Now, if I could never be the one against the wall, that wouldn’t work either. But my constitution is more feminine. So if I always had to be the one facing the wall, or even most of the time, my desire just wouldn’t be there. Once in a while it’s hot—but consistently? No.
Shana James (33:03.817)
No, not gonna be there. I actually had a relationship end for that reason, and it was fascinating. We were very supportive of each other. It wasn’t a long relationship, but there was this recognition that, wow—we both wanted to be more receptive. We both wanted to be more surrendered.
And we couldn’t find our way together. So we set each other free, which was beautiful. There was no sense that anyone was wrong. It was just—our combination doesn’t bring joy to either of us.
Joanna Shakti (33:44.741)
It doesn’t ignite. It doesn’t spark.
And what I find really important right now is exactly what you just described—looking at whether we’re living the authentic expression of ourselves.
I think back to myself 25 years ago as an electrical engineer in Houston, Texas, working with the good old boys in the oil and gas industry. I was not feminine. But that was a persona. It was what I thought I had to do to succeed, to be respected, to be promoted.
And I used to complain, “Where are all the strong men?” But they couldn’t show up as strong—because I was standing there trying to out-masculine the masculine beings I was attracted to. I was neutralizing everything.
Shana James (34:43.379)
Which is so interesting—to realize there’s a way to be powerful as women without abandoning our feminine. Both feminine and masculine can be powerful. And sometimes that power is intense, and sometimes it’s quiet—just like ecstasy. It can be mind-blowing, or it can be a deep awe and wonder. Such a range.
Joanna Shakti (35:08.130)
Such a range. And when we really pull power apart—what is the true expression of feminine power?—people feel it immediately. They say, “Yes, that moves me. That influences me. I just never thought about it that way.”
Because the masculine has been judged for being too masculine. The feminine has been judged for being too feminine. When feminine shows up in masculine beings, they’re judged. There’s so much judgment around all of this, and it’s honestly excruciatingly painful.
We’ve been told: be a modern woman, be a modern man—be everything. And in trying to be everything, we abandon who we are.
I don’t care if it’s the lesbian woman who came to one of our retreats and said, “I finally have permission to be myself—but it doesn’t look like the form I’m in.”
Or the man who says, “I buried my masculine energy because I didn’t want to be that guy—and now I’m reclaiming myself.”
Or the strong, independent woman who says, “I’m exhausted. I wish someone had my back.”
Shana James (36:33.373)
And I imagine vice versa too — men realizing they have feminine aspects and feeling too embarrassed to ever talk about it or admit it.
Joanna Shakti (36:46.291)
Ten thousand percent. Thank you for emphasizing that. The shaming of feminine aspects — even in predominantly masculine people — is excruciating. Their emotions, their sensitivities — it’s deeply painful.
Shana James (37:16.073)
Yeah. I’ve worked with so many men who were shamed for being sensitive, for crying, for feeling moved. Partners leaving them because of it. There’s so much heartbreak on all sides.
Joanna Shakti (37:34.941)
Yes. And yet — there is such a possibility to reframe all of this.
Shana James (37:43.433)
Right. Bringing people back together soul to soul — embracing all of these aspects.
Joanna Shakti (37:54.152)
Yes. And I want to be clear—not all men are predominantly masculine, not all women predominantly feminine. It is common, in my experience of 20 years, but sometimes it’s reversed, sometimes it’s neutral.
What matters is that you know what’s true for you — and that you give yourself permission to live it.
I’m working with a gay man right now, and it’s beautiful watching him reclaim parts of himself he never allowed.
Shana James (38:33.661)
Hallelujah.
Shana James (38:45.341)
And I think about people who don’t fit neatly on the gender spectrum — and how in some ways, there’s less expectation of who they’re “supposed” to be. Some things are much harder, yes — but there can also be more freedom in discovery.
Joanna Shakti (39:15.987)
Yes. Especially in same-sex relationships, there’s often more fluidity. Maybe sexually I’m more feminine and my partner more masculine — but domestically I’m more masculine. Or emotionally I’m more sensitive.
What’s beautiful is that there isn’t as much rigid conditioning — though sometimes there still is.
But if we’re predominantly masculine or feminine and we really own that consciously, the secondary energy usually comes along for the ride. When you have to constantly switch back and forth, it requires much more capacity.
And yet, those beings offer an exquisite gift.
Shana James (40:24.573)
Yeah. Thank you so much. This is incredible. I feel so blessed to have this conversation and to bring it to people.
Whether you’ve thought about soul-to-soul connection before, or you just have that sense that there’s something more you can’t quite put words to, I hope this has given you new ways to think, new questions to ask, and more curiosity.
Before you tell us where people can find you — anything you want to leave us with?
Joanna Shakti (41:03.922)
The sentence that came to me is this: The safest intimacy is rooted in authenticity.
Building that can feel like going backwards — but it doesn’t take as long as people think. In three to four months, most people have a very different relationship with themselves.
And that authenticity makes the risk of loving fully, of being deeply intimate, so much safer.
Shana James (41:51.785)
Yes. Because when you’re aligned with yourself — unwilling to settle, unwilling to contort yourself — it’s easier to walk away from something that isn’t opening you to more love.
Joanna Shakti (42:11.261)
Absolutely. You may still be bummed — but you know it’s not for your highest, or theirs.
Shana James (42:26.877)
And that saves so much heartbreak.
Joanna Shakti (42:36.809)
So much heartbreak. Thank you.
Shana James (42:43.130)
Thank you. Where can people find you?
Joanna Shakti (42:43.130)
EcstaticIntimacy. com — articles, resources, events. Everything is there.
Shana James (42:59.337)
I highly recommend her work — so soulful, so wise. You truly bridge the engineer and the divine in a way that makes this accessible and profound.
Joanna Shakti (43:29.736)
Thank you, Shana. Such a privilege.
Shana James (43:32.041)
Thank you.
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