In this week’s episode of Practicing Love, I sit down with therapist-and-coach team Andrew and Kiana Joyner to talk about what actually keeps couples emotionally and physically connected over the long haul.
Find out how to have the best love and sex of your life!
Why High Achieving Couples Lose Connection and How to Get it Back: Show Notes
Why do so many ambitious, successful couples end up feeling more like roommates than romantic partners?
It’s rarely because they stopped loving each other.
Most people assume intimacy begins in the bedroom.
Andrew and Kiana Joyner believe it begins at the kitchen table…in the everyday moments where partners feel heard, understood, appreciated, and emotionally safe. When those moments disappear, physical intimacy often follows.
In this episode of Practicing Love, I sit down with therapist-and-coach team Andrew and Kiana Joyner to explore what actually keeps love alive when careers, parenting, ambition, and everyday responsibilities compete for attention.
Whether you’re entrepreneurs, professionals, parents, or simply two busy people trying to build a meaningful life together, this conversation offers practical tools you can start to use today.
In this episode, we explore:
- Why emotional intimacy is the foundation of physical intimacy
- Why high-achieving couples often put their relationship on the back burner without realizing it
- Why feeling understood matters more than agreeing, and the common misunderstanding about love languages
- How unresolved hurts quietly create exhaustion and distance in relationships
- Practical ways to become more intentional with your time, communication, and shared vision
- The difference between mature and immature communication, and a simple practice that creates repair
- The actions that actually create lasting connection (since insight alone doesn’t change relationships)
Lasting love isn’t built by accident. It’s built through small, intentional moments of understanding, appreciation, and repair.
Links:
Connect with Andrew and Kiana Joyner
Connect with Shana James
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Bio:
Andrew Joyner and Kiana Joyner are a therapist-and-coach team who specialize in helping individuals and couples create emotional clarity, deeper connection, and lasting transformation. Together, they help ambitious couples and successful professionals build stronger communication, greater accountability, and relationships that thrive emotionally, physically, and spiritually.
Transcript:
Shana James (00:00)
Hello, and welcome to this episode of Practicing Love: Have the Best Love and Sex of Your Life. I’m your host, Shana James, and I’m so happy to be here today to support couples in creating deeper emotional and physical connection.
Especially if you’re high-achieving or simply busy, there’s often so much going on. There’s so much to do, and it can be hard to shift from just getting things done to actually feeling close and connected.
Today I’m joined by an amazing duo — a married couple who are also a therapist and coach team — Andrew and Kiana Joyner. Thank you both so much for being here to talk with us today.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (00:43)
Yes, thank you for having us, Shana.
Shana James (00:45)
I’d love to start with a little background. You’re in a romantic relationship and you work together. What inspired you to combine those two worlds and begin supporting people in this way?
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (00:58)
Absolutely. And thank you again for having us.
We’re Andrew and Kiana Joyner, a coach-and-therapist duo. We’ve been together for over 15 years, married for 13, and we have an eight-year-old daughter. We live in Texas, and we started our business, Soul Journey Therapy and Coaching Services, about two years ago in its current form.
We’ve always been passionate about helping individuals and couples. After many years of marriage ourselves, we decided it was time to take the step and build Soul Journey together.
We actually met in high school. We weren’t high school sweethearts, but after college we reconnected, started dating, and — as they say — the rest is history.
Shana James (01:46)
That’s amazing.
I’m going to get a little personal because I think it helps other couples. Is there a particular dynamic in your own relationship where you’ve used the very tools you teach to strengthen your marriage?
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (02:05)
Absolutely.
At the core of everything we teach is communication.
If we’re not clear about our expectations, our preferences, or when something isn’t working the way we’d hoped, then we first have to be honest with ourselves — and then honest with each other. That means being willing to have vulnerable conversations.
We also talk a lot about validating your partner before jumping into problem-solving or going into the deep end. We want each person to feel heard, understood, and cared for.
Many times, when needs aren’t being met, it isn’t because someone is being malicious. It’s simply that life is busy. So we honor everything our partner is carrying while also being honest about the impact it’s having on us and what we need.
That openness has been a key part of our relationship.
Shana James (03:12)
I think that’s such a powerful point — that when partners don’t meet each other’s needs, it isn’t always malicious.
Sometimes it’s a lack of awareness.
Sometimes it’s limited capacity.
Sometimes it’s simply different communication styles.
When I’m working with couples who are really butting heads and their defenses are up, I’m constantly trying to find the positive intention in both people.
If I talk to one partner alone, the story leans one way. If I talk to the other, it leans the other way.
Then we bring them together, and it’s fascinating — and sometimes challenging — to help them actually understand each other.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (04:02)
Absolutely.
Early in our marriage we learned a phrase that has stayed with us:
“Intimacy starts at the kitchen table.”
Shana James (04:10)
Ooh… I haven’t heard that one.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (04:14)
Our culture gives us the illusion that sex and physical intimacy are what sustain a marriage.
But that’s really not true.
If you’ve been married for any length of time, you know that when you and your partner aren’t seeing eye to eye, when conflict isn’t resolved well, or when trust has been broken…
Intimacy is usually the last thing on your mind.
There’s no sex.
No hand-holding.
No making out.
None of it.
When you’re dating and you’re in that puppy-love phase, you can often override those things because the chemistry is so strong.
Shana James (04:41)
Right.
You can override those other things.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (04:56)
Exactly.
But once you’re married, you have to learn a different way.
Instead of expecting a blazing fire all the time — which takes enormous energy — you learn how to create a steady flame.
You feed the fire a little here…
A little there…
You keep it consistently burning instead of constantly chasing an inferno.
That’s much more sustainable.
If your expectation is that relationships should always feel like they did in the beginning, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
Life is going to happen.
The question is: how do you keep feeding the fire?
Shana James (05:38)
Totally.
Even in my own life right now, there has been one family event after another.
My partner’s child’s wedding.
My child getting sick.
Another family commitment.
Something else after that.
Life just keeps happening.
So I’d love to hear more about what it actually looks like to feed that steady fire.
And if there’s any foundation you want to lay before we get into that, please do.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (06:06)
Absolutely.
A great place to start is with love languages.
Most people are familiar with them, but we often misunderstand what they actually mean.
People think:
“My love language is words of affirmation, so I’ll give you words of affirmation, and you should give them back to me.”
But that’s not really the point.
If your partner expresses love differently, it’s important to recognize that’s how they’re trying to love you.
And if they’re making an effort to love you in your language — even if it doesn’t come naturally — give them grace.
They’re trying.
The goal is to become flexible enough to communicate love in the way your partner best receives it.
When both people know how the other experiences love, and they’re intentional about offering it, that’s what fills the love tank.
That’s when you feel cared for.
That’s when emotions settle.
That’s when you can appreciate the little things.
“You brought me my favorite coffee.”
“You thought of me.”
Those small, intentional acts build connection over time.
Shana James (07:45)
I love that.
And I think so many couples today are exhausted.
Everyone I talk to seems exhausted.
Especially when there are kids.
The world feels chaotic.
So I’m curious…
When you’re encouraging couples to feed the fire through those small moments of appreciation and gratitude, what do you say to the couples who respond,
“I don’t have anything left.”
Because it takes a certain generosity — or willingness — to find appreciation when you’re completely depleted.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (08:23)
That’s such an important question.
Often they’re exhausted not just because of everything they’re carrying day to day…
They’re also carrying unresolved hurts.
Unmet expectations.
Past relationship wounds.
Trauma.
All kinds of emotional baggage they’ve put on a shelf and never actually dealt with.
As we help couples unpack those experiences and better understand where their partner was coming from, that emotional burden starts to lighten.
And when the burden gets lighter…
There’s more room for intimacy.
More room for generosity.
More room for grace.
That’s how you keep feeding the fire.
Not through one magical date night or quick fix.
But by asking:
What are we intentionally creating together?
What kind of relationship are we building?
Do we share the same vision?
Whether it’s around intimacy…
Finances…
Career…
Family…
Are we actually walking together?
Or have we quietly become two roommates who occasionally have sex?
Shana James (09:45)
Exactly.
One of the endorsements on the back of Honest Sex actually says it’s not about date night.
You’ve got to go deeper than that.
What I’m hearing you describe is creating a shared life.
A shared reality.
And many couples never intentionally create that after the wedding.
There are vows…
Then life takes over.
If you’re simply drifting — or each pursuing your own path — it’s so easy to end up frustrated and disappointed with each other.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (10:21)
Exactly.
And that’s especially true for high-achieving couples.
You’re ambitious.
You’re driven.
But ambition often becomes individualized.
“I’m pursuing my dream.”
“You’re pursuing yours.”
And somewhere along the way, the relationship quietly gets put on the shelf.
You assume it will always be there.
“This is my season to build my career.”
“This is my season to go after this opportunity.”
But we forget the impact that has on the relationship.
Because the relationship isn’t guaranteed.
If you’re not investing in it…
It can slowly fade away.
Shana James (11:17)
I’ve worked with so many people who only realized that after divorce.
That’s when they woke up and thought,
“Oh no… I didn’t tend to the relationship. I didn’t keep feeding the fire.”
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (11:23)
Exactly.
And that’s when we start asking:
What boundaries need to be in place so you’re not living in constant exhaustion?
Is work constantly spilling into home?
Can you have dinner without taking a business call?
Can you stay present during an important conversation without checking your phone?
Those seemingly small moments have a huge impact on the health of a relationship.
Shana James (12:02)
Yeah, I have a question about that because I think it’s such an important one.
I know for myself that sometimes I have a choice. I can spend the evening working on my business, or I can put that attention toward my relationship and my partner. Sometimes there’s room for both, but I know many couples where one person works late into the night and the other doesn’t.
How do you support couples in communicating about that so they can create more of a win-win and actually spend meaningful time together?
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (12:40)
Great question.
One thing we work on frequently with couples is aligning their calendars.
When it comes to relationships, we sometimes forget that being successful in any endeavor requires skills, and relationships are no different.
You need communication skills.
You need time management skills.
You need conflict resolution skills.
These are all abilities that develop over time.
People often put “good communicator” on a dating profile as if it’s a personality trait, but it’s really a skill set.
And we don’t spend enough time evaluating those skills on the front end.
How strong are someone’s communication skills?
How do they manage money?
How do they handle conflict?
Those are the things that have the biggest impact on a relationship over the long term.
When you look at why people divorce, it’s rarely because the sex was bad.
It’s financial stress.
It’s unresolved conflict.
It’s unreconcilable differences.
Those are the issues that usually break relationships apart.
So we bring a lot of practical recommendations to the table.
For example:
Do you have a shared calendar?
If you’re married or raising a family together, do you have a family calendar where you sit down and intentionally block out your time?
You schedule meetings at work.
Why wouldn’t you schedule your home life with the same level of care?
Shana James (14:06)
Yes.
And I was also wondering…
Do you have a shared vision for how much time you actually want to spend together each week?
Or are you only together if there’s any time left over?
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (14:30)
Exactly.
It’s about being intentional with the time you do have.
Even if it’s only an hour or two a week, how intentional are you with that time?
And are you giving your partner your best?
Because, like you said, if the only thing left is the leftovers…
If you’re exhausted on the couch and falling asleep…
Where’s the connection?
Where’s the opportunity to build the relationship?
Nobody wants sloppy leftovers.
I want the best of you.
If the best of you is always going somewhere outside the house, that’s probably not going to serve your relationship very well—whether you’re dating or married.
Shana James (15:12)
Exactly.
And do you have any suggestions for couples with kids?
Because it becomes so much harder to bring your best when you’re parenting and exhausted too.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (15:22)
Again, it comes back to being proactive instead of reactive.
Everything becomes significantly harder when you’re reacting all the time.
If you’re intentional about planning your week or even your month, you can align on questions like:
Where do the kids need to be?
Where do we each need to be?
Who’s handling what?
You have a meeting.
I have to travel.
The kids have activities.
Let’s coordinate all of those logistics ahead of time.
Then, if something unexpected comes up, you adjust together.
It’s really about having open communication, creating a plan, and making sure you’re aligned around what you’re trying to accomplish.
I’d also add that kids need boundaries too.
They need to see us practicing what we preach.
There are times when they need to understand that Mom and Dad are having time together.
Depending on their age, that might simply mean teaching them to knock before coming into the bedroom because Mom and Dad are having a private conversation.
Healthy boundaries with children create space for your relationship too.
Shana James (16:57)
Yes.
I think it’s easy to fall into the mindset that it’s too hard to change…
Or that there simply isn’t another way.
One of the things I love helping my clients discover is that there’s almost always another possibility, even if we can’t see it yet.
I tend to look for the win-win.
There are usually far more win-wins available than we realize, and simply beginning to look for them can make a huge difference for couples.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (17:36)
Absolutely.
We focus a lot on eliminating competition and looking for opportunities to create win-win outcomes whenever possible.
That takes maturity.
It requires delayed gratification.
It requires patience.
It requires us to be adults.
As you’re learning new skills and new ways of relating, you have to be patient with yourself and with your partner.
Nobody became Van Gogh on day one.
These things take time.
Give yourself grace.
Take baby steps if that’s what you need.
If creating a shared family calendar feels overwhelming, then start with your own calendar first.
Build consistency there.
Then take the next step toward creating something together.
Those small investments compound over time.
Little shifts in your patterns create exponential growth.
Shana James (18:57)
I like that.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (18:57)
And if you’re at the point where you genuinely don’t know what else to do…
If you feel completely stuck…
That’s often the time to get support—from someone like you, Shana, or from us, or another trusted professional.
Sometimes you simply need fresh eyes.
We can’t tell you how many times we’ve suggested something incredibly simple and a couple says,
“Why didn’t we think of that?”
It seems obvious once you can see it.
But when you’re inside the relationship, you don’t always see what you don’t see.
Getting an outside perspective from someone you trust—not just a friend with lots of opinions and a trail of failed relationships—can bring tremendous clarity.
Shana James (20:03)
I love that.
I want to go back to maturity because I have a real love for that concept.
In Honest Sex, I wrote about mature honesty versus immature honesty.
Mature honesty takes responsibility.
It speaks from that deeper, more vulnerable place that both of you were describing, rather than reacting from the surface.
Sometimes people hear the word maturity and think,
“Does that mean I have to grow up? Does that mean life becomes stale?”
I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about at all.
You mentioned patience.
Delayed gratification.
Could you share a couple more examples of what maturity looks like in relationships and how you help couples develop it?
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (20:58)
When we talk about maturity, we’re really talking about empathy.
The ability to put yourself in someone else’s shoes.
The immature perspective is self-centered.
“I want what I want, and I want it now.”
That’s how children think.
Part of becoming an adult is recognizing that sometimes someone else’s needs need to come before your own.
That’s empathy.
And we sometimes discover that this capacity is significantly underdeveloped in the couples we work with.
They simply haven’t learned how to step into their partner’s experience and genuinely see things from that perspective, or prioritize their needs over my own.
When we talk about maturity in the context of relationships, that’s a big part of what we mean. And it’s something that can absolutely be developed.
Some people seem to have more empathy naturally. I would say women often tend to be more empathetic than men—not always, of course, but that can be a common pattern.
The good news is that empathy is a skill we can all grow over time.
I also think many couples don’t realize the impact their actions have on each other because they’re so busy justifying what they did.
One of the things we teach is this:
Before you explain your intentions, first acknowledge your partner’s feelings.
That brings us right back to empathy.
Can you recognize what they’re feeling and why?
Can you say,
“I can see why that was really upsetting for you. I understand how, from your perspective, it looked this way—even though my intention was something different.”
Once you’ve acknowledged their experience, then you can ask,
“Would you be open to hearing what was happening for me in that moment?”
Only then do you move into the explanation.
Too often we start with explaining ourselves, and unintentionally communicate,
“You shouldn’t feel that way because that’s not what I meant.”
Shana James (23:20)
Yes.
That’s it.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (23:31)
Exactly.
And that’s where the competition begins.
That’s where we get into the back-and-forth.
Shana James (23:38)
There are so many sessions where I’m slowing couples down and saying,
“Okay… before you explain or justify yourself, let’s pause.”
What did you hear?
What do you imagine your partner felt?
What’s your empathic response?
It makes so much sense to want to clarify:
“That’s not what I meant.”
“That’s not what I was trying to do.”
But you’re absolutely right.
None of that gets received until the other person feels understood.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (24:10)
Exactly.
Shana James (24:10)
Okay, we have a little more time.
What feels most important that we haven’t talked about yet?
Or what are some practical actions listeners can start taking today?
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (24:22)
I think we live in such an interesting time.
Our culture is changing rapidly.
Technology is changing.
AI is changing the way we work and live.
Our values and priorities continue to shift.
And I think, in all of that, we sometimes overlook the simple path because we’re searching for something more complex or more dramatic.
But the truth is, the simplest path is often the most sustainable.
It may move a little more slowly, but that doesn’t make it any less effective.
Small things really do make a big difference.
Shana James (25:13)
Can you give an example of what you mean by “simple”?
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (25:16)
Absolutely.
Kiana mentioned this earlier.
One simple thing she does that means a lot to me is making my coffee in the morning.
She knows I’m getting our daughter ready for school and heading off to work.
Sometimes I’ll ask her if I’m running behind, but many times she simply does it because she’s thinking about me.
It’s such a small gesture.
It only saves me a minute or two.
But it tells me,
“I was thinking about you.”
And that’s what makes it meaningful.
Shana James (25:57)
I love that.
I’m also imagining bringing even more intention into those moments.
Maybe you hand your partner the coffee, look them in the eyes, and say,
“I love you.”
“Have a great day.”
Or,
“I’m grateful for you.”
Those little moments of appreciation don’t actually take much time.
They just require intention.
It’s not like you suddenly need to spend an hour appreciating each other.
It’s a moment.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (26:34)
Exactly.
It’s the little things.
Sending a quick text in the middle of the day:
“Thinking about you.”
That takes almost no time, but it lets your partner know they’re on your mind.
Or, if you live together, do you hug or kiss before leaving for the day?
That moment of physical connection may only last a few seconds, but if physical touch is important to your partner, it sets the tone for the whole day.
It gives them something to look forward to when you come home.
Another thing we see is that many couples simply don’t talk enough.
How do you build intimacy if you’re not having conversations?
Shana James (27:26)
Isn’t there some statistic that couples only spend about thirty minutes a week talking — outside of logistics?
I remember reading that and thinking,
“My goodness…”
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (27:39)
It doesn’t surprise us.
We worked with a couple who had been married for about seven years and had two children.
We asked,
“What’s your partner’s favorite color?”
Neither of them knew.
Then we asked,
“What’s their favorite meal?”
They both got it wrong.
And afterward they said,
“We just feel like roommates.”
Well…
You don’t really know each other anymore.
Sometimes we have to take couples back to the kinds of questions they asked on their first dates.
The simple things.
That’s how connection gets rebuilt.
Not all at once.
One brick at a time.
Shana James (28:34)
Yes.
And there are always more bricks to lay.
Some people think,
“I already know my partner.”
“There’s nothing new to discover.”
Or,
“They’re never going to change.”
But if you imagine spending the rest of your life together…
Do you really want to stay miserable?
Or do you want to choose something different?
For anyone listening, you have a choice in how you treat each other.
You have a choice to stay curious.
To discover something new.
To believe that something else is possible — even if your relationship feels challenging right now.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (29:06)
Absolutely.
It just takes one intentional step…
And then a commitment to take the next one.
If you’re willing to do that, you’ll walk together through whatever life throws at you.
But it has to be on purpose.
No couple thrives by accident.
Shana James (29:29)
No.
That’s so true.
I remember my partner once saying,
“We’re always going to have challenges. But because we can talk about anything, I know we’ll get through whatever comes our way.”
I love that.
And it brings us back to where we started.
So much of this comes down to communication.
How well do you understand each other?
How well do you know each other?
When that’s your foundation, the relationship becomes completely different than if you’re having the same disconnection over and over without ever talking about it.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (30:04)
Exactly.
We always encourage couples to give each other room to grow.
As you’re learning new skills, there will be bumps.
There will be setbacks.
It won’t be perfect.
Give your partner permission to try something different.
To fail.
To learn.
To succeed.
Otherwise, we keep each other trapped in the same box, believing nothing will ever change.
Shana James (30:36)
Thank you.
I can really feel the depth of wisdom you both bring — and what a beautiful combination it is to offer both deep understanding and practical action.
Before you tell people where they can find you, is there anything else you’d like to leave listeners with?
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (30:50)
I’d simply encourage people to pick one thing from this conversation.
If one idea stood out to you…
Maybe it’s expressing appreciation more often.
Maybe it’s being more intentional with your time.
Choose one thing.
Then commit to doing it.
Maybe even share this episode with your partner so you can each choose one thing together.
Because nothing changes if we don’t do anything differently.
Shana James (31:20)
Beautiful.
Thank you.
And where can people find more of you?
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (31:32)
You can find us at SoulJourneyProject.com.
We’re also on Instagram and Facebook at Soul Journey Project.
Shana James (31:45)
Thank you both so much for being here today.
And thank you for being a living example of a couple who truly walks your talk.
That’s rare these days.
So many couples are divorcing, and even more stay together without feeling happy, connected, or deeply intimate.
Thank you for being a source of hope and inspiration for what’s possible.
Andrew & Kiana Joyner (32:10)
Thank you.
We truly appreciate being here.
It’s been an honor.
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