Today, host Shana James talks with Daniele Fiandaca about his project Hard as Nails, which explores and how small acts of courage can spark big conversations about vulnerability, empathy, diversity, and mental health. It’s a conversation about rethinking strength, and opening new pathways for connection and inclusion, while offering a path out of the stifling Man Box.
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The Hard as Nails Movement: Men Challenging Masculinity Stereotypes for Better Mental Health: Show Notes
There are so many conversations and ideas about what it really means to be a man. It can get overwhelming, confusing, and even potentially frustrating.
If you’re a man, I’m curious how it’s been for you: how have the roles society gave you shaped, or limited, your ability to connect, love, and live fully?
And if you’re not a man, a related question: how have those same roles made it harder to connect with, love, or be loved by men?
In this week’s episode of Man Alive, I had the privilege of speaking with Daniele Fiandaca, cofounder of the Hard as Nails movement. His project brings men together with a pledge to paint their fingernails for a week. It’s a bold experiment to challenge stereotypes, and spark deeper conversations about masculinity, empathy, and vulnerability. Men explore their conditioning, their mental health, and the limitations they have absorbed.
In this deep and rich conversation we talked about:
- Why challenging stereotypes is essential for men’s mental health
- How his vulnerability inspired his wife to feel more connected to him than ever before
- The surprising power of a small action (like painting nails) to spark brave conversations
- How men can navigate privilege, diversity, and allyship to foster true inclusion — while also receiving the benefits themselves
This was a moving, eye-opening conversation that I believe every man (and everyone who loves men) will benefit from hearing.
I highly recommend checking out the episode and then the movement itself. Many men who participate have epiphanies that help them step out of the “Man Box” and into more freedom, empathy, and connection.
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Connect with Daniele
Bio:
Daniele Fiandaca is a leading voice in reimagining masculinity through inclusion, empathy, and authenticity. He co-founded Token Man Consulting, a firm dedicated to inspiring men and senior leaders to become true allies in inclusion and diversity. He also shaped Utopia, a culture-change consultancy recognized for transforming workplaces into more inclusive, entrepreneurial, and purpose-driven environments.
A recognized Agent of Change, Daniele has been named one of Management Today’s Top 30 Male Agents of Change and one of the UK’s Top Trailblazers in Gender Equality. His journey into this work began with a pivotal moment at a leadership dinner — he recognized that even well-intentioned actions can perpetuate exclusion. Inspired to shift the culture, he co-created Token Man to meaningfully engage men in the inclusion conversation.
Daniele is passionate about creating Brave spaces where men can safely explore vulnerability, question outdated stereotypes, and practice allyship in ways that strengthen both personal relationships and professional cultures. He combines storytelling, wisdom, and actionable insight in keynote talks, coaching programs, workshops, and consulting — guiding individuals and organizations toward greater emotional intelligence, resilience, and cultural inclusivity
Transcript:
Shana James (00:00)
Hello and welcome to this episode of Man Alive. I’m your host, Shana James, and it’s been a while since I’ve recorded specifically for Man Alive. As some of you know, I also started Practicing Love: How to Have the Best Love and Sex of Your Life After 40. Some episodes go on both platforms, but this one felt like it really needed to be a Man Alive episode.
We have an amazing guest today: Daniele Fiandaca, founder of Token Man Consulting and co-founder of Hard as Nails. We’re going to talk about manhood, challenging masculine stereotypes, and the harm they can cause in men’s lives—and in all of our lives, as well as men’s mental health and masculine allyship.
I deeply believe that when men aren’t supported to be healthy, vital, and well, everyone suffers. So thank you so much, Daniele, for being here and doing this work.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (00:54)
Thank you so much for inviting me. Now feels like a really good time to have this conversation about men’s mental health and breaking down masculine stereotypes.
Shana James (01:00)
Yes, so important. For those listening who can’t see, you’re wearing a shirt with the trans flag colors and silver nail polish. Can you tell us a little about Hard as Nails, and then we’ll dive in from there?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (01:12)
Yes. Hard as Nails is a movement I co-founded with Sam Conniff. It encourages men to paint their nails—not as fashion—but to spark meaningful conversations about healthy masculinity, harmful stereotypes, and men’s mental health.
The origin story is Sam’s. He went to a Harry Styles concert with his daughters and decided to get his nails done. Afterward, he asked his daughter to take the polish off before a week of business meetings. She laughed and said, “Dad, it’s shellac—you’ll have to go back to the salon.” He panicked, thinking he couldn’t show up at meetings that way.
Shana James (01:53)
Wow!
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (02:04)
Right? But what happened was surprising. In business contexts, he felt uncomfortable—but it opened conversations he’d never had before: with taxi drivers, handymen, clients, even school kids. About masculinity stereotypes, male vulnerability, etc.
For example, when I visited a school with about 40 boys, 95% assumed I was gay because of my nails. I told them: “First, there’s nothing wrong with being gay. And second, I take it as a compliment—most gay men I know are stylish.” But it showed how deeply stereotypes and assumptions run.
Sam being Sam—he also wrote Be More Pirate—saw potential in this. Pirates, interestingly, were one of the most inclusive and diverse cultures. Women even had the right to vote. Sam blogged about his nail experience, wondering: “Is this performative allyship, or is it a genius idea? Someone should pick this up.”
I read it, and three months later we spoke. I told him, “I don’t think it’s performative. But I can’t comment until I try.” So over Christmas a year and a half ago, I did it myself. I painted my nails for a week.
Shana James (03:40)
What happened for you?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (03:51)
For me, it just felt right. I’m on a mission to break stereotypes, and this fit perfectly. It created new experiences with my wife—we went to a salon together. With my niece too. It opened different conversations, though I had to initiate most of them. Honestly, few people even noticed.
A year later, we ran a pilot. Then a LinkedIn campaign with 400 participants. We did pre- and post- research with 200 men. We had a WhatsApp group of 110 guys painting their nails and sharing experiences—over 1,000 comments in two weeks.
Shana James (04:51)
Wow. What kinds of things were they saying?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (05:02)
I still get daily posts. Many men reported feeling good about it—about 50% said they’d do it again. But more importantly, they had epiphanies. That’s why we call it an “epiphany engine.”
Most men went into it terrified. They expected judgment.
Shana James (05:34)
Btw, I told my partner—he gets his toenails painted with his daughter. He admitted even he would feel nervous showing up in business meetings with painted nails. He realized he wasn’t as open as he thought.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (05:43)
Exactly. That’s the first insight: men think it’s about others—about sparking conversations outward. But when no one reacts, they start looking inward: Why am I so uncomfortable? What am I afraid of?
There are so many stereotypes and it’s vulnerable to be a man redefining masculinity when the man box is so strong.
For example, Max, who wrote Billy No-Mates, joined one of our sessions. He later went to meet friends at a pub. Hand on the door, he looked at his painted nails… and walked away. That was his epiphany: realizing how stereotypes and masculine expectations limited him.
Shana James (07:33)
He turned around and walked away.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (07:51)
Yes. And through our data, we saw the impact on empathy. Many white, straight men—like me—had never experienced being “othered.” Suddenly they got a glimpse: what it might be like to be trans, or a person of color in a white space, or visibly from a different religion.
For the first time, they felt what it was like to be “other.” That shift created empathy they’d never had before.
Shana James (08:26)
Yes. Wow.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (08:43)
And while I call Hard as Nails a men’s movement, I knew it would also support allyship. Not performative allyship, but real allyship—because it comes from lived experience. It’s not just about painting your nails. It’s about confronting discomfort, having hard conversations, and facing prejudice directly.
Like when a drunk older woman looked at me and said, “What are you?” Then added, “At least you’re not like my granddaughter, who’s transitioning.” It was prejudice at its worst. But at least now, she may think twice before judging someone else who looks different.
Shana James (09:48)
Wow. There’s so much here—the empathy, the epiphanies. I’m curious about Max again, the one at the pub. Did you debrief with him? Did he come to understand what he was most afraid of?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (10:10)
No, that would have come out in the qualitative. We did lots of focus groups afterwards, and we also ran proper tests. Sam—my co-founder on this—he’s amazing. The level of research and detail he brings is incredible. And this responsibility doesn’t sit lightly with me.
We have an opportunity to move masculinity forward in this country—and maybe beyond—faster than anyone has in the last 20 years. I truly believe that. Our goal is to get 33,000 men to do this, which would hit the 3.3% tipping point. That’s when real, noticeable change can start happening in society.
Shana James (10:42)
Okay, say more about that. How so?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (11:03)
It works. We’ve proven it works. Men say they’ll never be the same person again—and all they’ve done is paint their nails for a week.
Shana James (11:13)
Right. Externally, that’s all they’ve done—paint their nails.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (11:16)
Exactly. That’s all on the outside. But internally, the shifts are huge.
Take Max Dickens again—the author of Billy No-Mates. His realization was powerful. And for me personally, I never would’ve imagined two years ago that I’d become a trained nail technician. If you told me that, I’d have said you were mad! But here I am—qualified.
Shana James (11:37)
Wait, you are a trained nail technician? How did that happen?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (11:55)
I knew I wanted to bring this to conferences and to wider audiences—not just to talk about it, but to create lived experiences. And painting nails is such a powerful experience. I usually go to Shoreditch Nails in London—when I’m there, I feel at home, comfortable, supported.
Shana James (12:00)
That’s amazing. Especially because, as someone who works in diversity, equity, and inclusion, I don’t think I’ve ever heard something so concrete. I can imagine you going to conferences and not just talking about this, but actually giving people a direct experience of what it means.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (12:35)
Totally. The first time we did it, Sam was presenting, and I was on stage with three other nail technicians—the only man among them. I painted the nails of the event organizer, who, funnily enough, was the first person I ever made redundant when I worked in advertising.
Sam had called me saying, “We might be speaking at this conference.” I asked who ran it, and when he said James Wallman, I laughed—I knew James really well. Six weeks later, there I was on stage, painting his nails while telling my story.
Shana James (12:56)
How did that go?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (13:13)
It was emotional. James was nearly in tears. For him, being on stage, having his nails painted—it cracked something open.
Shana James (13:34)
What did he say about it? What were the tears about?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (13:38)
It was the vulnerability. That realization of how much we’re all beholden to masculine stereotypes. We’re boxed in by the “man box,” and it causes so much damage.
Shana James (13:55)
Yes. And if we go deeper into that—what do you see men not being as aware of in the ways they’re beholden to those stereotypes? From your experience in diversity, equity, and inclusion, what feels clear to you but maybe invisible to them?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (14:17)
The first obvious one—I’ll share a story. I’ve been in diversity and inclusion for 11 years. When I started Token Man, it was really focused on gender equality. At the time, men were not only not invited into the room, they often weren’t welcome.
In conversations about gender equality, men were absent. But here’s the thing: throughout history, no minority group has achieved lasting change without support from the majority. Whether it was voting rights or civil rights, change was backed by those in power. And in corporations—which is where I do most of my work—men still hold the majority of leadership roles.
That’s why I started Token Man: to engage men. But at the beginning, I knew nothing. I was an ex-CEO who thought I was inclusive, but I wasn’t. I wasn’t empathetic, culturally intelligent, or self-aware.
Shana James (15:15)
Yes. Wow.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (15:36)
So, three—or really four—things woke me up. First, the Iceland volcano that forced me to work with Hyper Island, a culture-change school. Second, a dinner I organized 13 years ago while I was in advertising.
I wanted to recruit more women into leadership, so I set up a dinner for myself and 12 women. I funded and organized it, but honestly, I didn’t think much of it. I just showed up after a long workday. People joked: “Lucky you, dinner with 12 women.” But the moment I walked in, something happened that had never happened to me before in my career: I lost my confidence.
Shana James (16:21)
At that dinner with 12 women.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (16:30)
Yes. And people who know me would say that’s impossible. But it really did happen. It was like an invisible hand pulled my confidence away.
I realized one of my biggest privileges: until I was 39, I’d never experienced being in the “out group” at work. That dinner was the first time. The conversations around me pushed me further out, and when I stood to introduce the dinner, my co-host—who’s a close friend—cut me off.
I walked away shaken. Everything women had been telling me about their boardroom experiences—I believed them, but I had never felt it. That night, I felt it.
Shana James (17:11)
Right. It’s one thing to hear it. Another to viscerally experience it.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (17:17)
Exactly. If hearing it was a “10” in terms of impact, experiencing it was a “100.” That was when I finally understood privilege—not just as material things, like having a nice house or going on holidays. Privilege was all the barriers I didn’t have to face.
So I launched Token Man with three women. They only stayed active for the first year, but they gave me the confidence to begin. I was worried women wouldn’t accept me. I honestly didn’t care what men thought—but I cared deeply what women thought, since I was doing this for gender equality. Those women helped me find the right tone and language.
But at first, I really knew nothing. So I copied what others were doing.
I just told men, “The system’s broken. We need to fix it.”
Shana James (18:45)
Thank you for even acknowledging that—because there’s humility in admitting you didn’t know.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (18:52)
Yes. And it was easy for me to admit, because I truly didn’t know anything. My first panel was at the RSA—the Royal Society of Arts. High profile. I was on stage with three women: the author of Lean Out, the CEO of the Fawcett Society… Imposter syndrome was through the roof. The Royal Society of Arts. So high profile.
I was speaking with three women. ⁓ with the author of Lean Out, the CEO of the Fawcett Society… Imposter syndrome was through the roof.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (19:25)
At the end of that panel, a lovely man came up to me and said, “Hi, my name’s Hilary Gallo, and I’d like to give you my book, The Power of Soft—because you have the power of soft.”
I can promise you this: if you asked anyone who worked with me in advertising for over a decade, not one of them would have described me as having “the power of soft.”
But in this new environment, I had to listen. I had to admit I didn’t know everything. And in that space, I discovered qualities in myself I never knew existed.
In advertising, the rule was: the more you spoke, the more successful you’d be. So you spoke a lot. Which meant the quieter people didn’t get heard. And that’s how exclusion happens. Being afraid of saying the wrong thing forced me to slow down and listen in a different way.
But I also realized there was no point in me telling women what they already knew. I needed to get in front of men.
I got married to my beautiful wife, Tina, on December 28th, 2012. She gave me a book before our wedding called To My Future Husband. I don’t usually do this, but I’ll read you a little. She listed ten words to describe me: brave, enthusiastic, exciting, generous, fit, passionate, smart, affectionate, control freak, and honest.
Shana James (20:41)
Yes. Aww. But no “soft” in there.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (20:58)
Right—no soft. I read this before we got married, and it sat on the side for a while. But at a point when I knew I had to do something differently—because I wasn’t reaching men—I picked it up again.
One page asked: The time I felt closest to you was… And Tina had written: “2011. You’ve always shown strength, and I’ve always admired that. But this was the year I saw something I’d never seen before—your vulnerable side. It doesn’t come out very often, and all I wanted to do was look after you.”
Shana James (21:31)
Beautiful.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (21:33)
2011 was the year my brother died.
And when I read that, it hit me like a gut punch. I’d been with Tina for ten years before we married—why did it take my brother’s death for her to see my vulnerability?
Shana James (22:01)
Or for you to show your vulnerability.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (22:07)
Exactly. She said it didn’t come out often—and truthfully, I probably hadn’t let it out at that level before.
Shana James (22:14)
Never. And that ties back to the stereotypes—you were supposed to be the rock. The strong one. The one who never falls apart.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (22:29)
Yes. And I remember giving my best man speech at my brother’s wedding. I cried, and half the audience cried with me. At the time, we thought he’d beaten cancer.
But when it came to my own wedding, I dreaded it for two years—because I knew I’d be giving a best man’s speech without my brother there. I never told anyone, but the thought was horrible. I rehearsed that speech word for word, ten times over. And when the moment came, I stood there crying for five minutes before I could even speak.
Some people in the room didn’t even know my brother had died. They didn’t understand why I was crying. But what got me through wasn’t my wife—it was my two best men who came and held me.
For me, reading Tina’s words and remembering that moment, I realized something: I couldn’t ask men to be better allies if I didn’t first look at how the system was damaging them.
That’s when our work began to shift. Roxanne Hobbs and I had already been running an event called Masculinity in the Workplace on International Men’s Day for eight years. But we began to approach it differently—bringing men in not just as allies, but as people who also needed empathy and support.
Today, the framework I use with organizations—and with individuals—is simple: Support. Inspire. Recruit.
Shana James (24:30)
Yes.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (24:39)
It’s a framework for organizations, but it’s also for anyone who wants to be an ally.
The truth is, everyone is struggling right now. And not everyone has the capacity to be an ally. Society has created this narrative that men need to be strong, that men can’t ask for help. Some even believe men don’t deserve support at all.
That breaks my heart. Because men are human beings. We all deserve support. Equity means recognizing that some groups need more support than others—today, for example, the trans community needs it most urgently.
But men, too, are intersectional. They also face barriers, even if in different ways. If we want a better society, we have to recognize that and meet men where they are in their journey.
If a man is thriving in a senior leadership role, I’ll work with him through inclusive leadership coaching to become a better leader. If another man is struggling, I’ll support him—whether through coaching or the free brave spaces I run.
For me, that’s where real change begins: meeting people exactly where they are.
Shana James (26:31)
Yes. Because if we go back to those stereotypes, so much of the problem is this: men aren’t allowed to simply be where they are. They’re not supposed to feel, to show weakness, to fall apart, to be afraid.
But that’s actually what’s most real and true in the moment.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (27:04)
Exactly. Vulnerability has become a huge part of what I do. I’ve shared things I never imagined I’d share.
My most-read LinkedIn post is about being childless—not by choice—and the impact it’s had on my wife and me. That resonated deeply because people rarely hear men talking about it.
More recently, I posted my testosterone score. I’m experiencing andropause—the male version of menopause. Let’s be clear: it’s not comparable, far fewer men experience it. But for those who do, testosterone drops about 2% per year starting around 40.
Shana James (27:36)
Wow.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (27:54)
Low testosterone has tough effects. I’ve struggled to get up in the morning for five years. I’ll likely need testosterone replacement therapy. But even then, it’s nothing compared to what my wife has gone through with menopause. That’s been so debilitating for her.
Shana James (28:08)
Yes. And I so appreciate you naming that. Both recognizing your own struggle, and also honoring what your wife is experiencing. Because this is the point—we don’t say, “You don’t deserve support.” We say, “Let’s meet you where you are, and figure it out together—while also recognizing what women are going through.”
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (28:19)
Yes. Exactly.
Shana James (28:34)
Is there anything you’d like to circle back to—about stereotypes, the “hard as nails” image, or anything that feels especially important to you?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (28:44)
Yes—probably three things I’d want men listening to take away.
First, think about what really matters. I know I’m in a privileged position to say this, but when people are on their deathbeds, studies show they rarely regret not having more money or spending more time at work. In fact, 81% say they regret not spending more time with their children.
At Masculinity in the Workplace two years ago, we had the incredible psychoanalyst Susie Orbach speak. She said, “I’m tired of meeting men on stilts who are hollow inside.”
Shana James (29:31)
Wow.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (29:33)
That’s stayed with me for years. Thankfully, the last thing I am is hollow inside. I’ve been doing this work for a decade, and I get to make a positive difference in people’s lives every day. That’s a gift—but it’s something anyone can do.
So, first: think about what really matters, and have the uncomfortable conversations. That’s why I run Brave Spaces every month. Up to 20 people join, and the feedback is consistently incredible—9.9 out of 10, 9.7 out of 10. We bring men together, choose a theme, and open the floor for honesty and vulnerability. My next one is on “Redefining Success.”
Shana James (30:09)
Right—these are spaces where people come together to be brave and vulnerable.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (30:19)
Exactly. It’s driven by what they want to explore. For example, in September I’m leading one called Sitting with Anger. Because anger isn’t necessarily bad—but if it’s not understood, controlled, or directed, it can be destructive.
The second takeaway: keep having those uncomfortable conversations.
And the third: lean in. Lean in to inclusion and diversity. The world is changing fast. Alvin Toffler said, “The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.”
And the truth is, today is the slowest the world is ever going to be. From here on, it only gets faster. I worry about people being left behind—and I don’t want to see anyone suffer because they can’t keep up.
We’ve done two big research projects—one with men leaning into inclusion and diversity, and one with men who identify as allies. Both had the same result: 97% said they became better leaders and/or better human beings because of the work.
And really—who wouldn’t want that?
Shana James (31:47)
Wow. Amazing.
Thank you so much—for having these conversations, for going first, for being vulnerable, for putting yourself out there. You’re challenging stereotypes and helping people reflect on what truly matters, and how we can shift and impact the world. I’m so grateful that you exist, that you’re brave enough to take these risks.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (32:22)
And the feeling is absolutely mutual. I think the work you’re doing is fabulous. Thank you so much.
Shana James (32:27)
Thank you. Do you want to share one more word about the Brave Spaces—how people can find them?
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (32:33)
Yes. If you type “Token Man Spaces” into Google, it should come right up—it’s hosted on Eventbrite. You can also search for “Token Man Brave Spaces.” They’re free, and I expect to continue offering them for at least the next 18 months.
Shana James (32:54)
Great. Thank you so much for being here and talking about how to be free of masculine stereotypes,, the power of vulnerability and empathy, and the potential for a major culture change.
Daniele Fiandaca (he/him) (32:57)
Thank you.
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