If you want to feel more loved and respected in your relationships, this episode is for you. Shana talks with Karen McMahon, founder of Journey Beyond Divorce about how claiming your self-worth and setting healthy boundaries can transform your love life. The more you stand in your truth, protect your heart, and create deeper, more fulfilling connections
Find out how to have the best love and sex of your life!
You’re the Prize: Build Self-worth and Confidence in Relationships: Show Notes
When it comes to love and relationships there’s something I see over and over again:
❤️ Love will be a struggle until you have strong self-worth and healthy boundaries.
Why?
If you don’t feel secure in yourself, you’ll protect yourself in ways that actually push love away.
You may get more defensive and suspicious, or be quicker to assume the worst.
Small issues can spiral into meltdowns or conflict because deep down there is a fear of not being enough, or that love won’t last for you.
In today’s Practicing Love podcast episode, I talked with divorce coach Karen McMahon, who shared her powerful journey through divorce. When she was younger she said, she didn’t realize she was a prize. She thought she was lucky to be with her partners. Now she has truly claimed her worth, and knows someone is lucky to be with her.
In our conversation we explored:
- Why self-worth is foundational for love and connection and how to build it
- How to set healthy boundaries without shutting people out
- The role of your body in managing emotions
- The link between emotional intelligence and lasting love
- Why personal responsibility allows for incredible freedom in relationships
This conversation is real and practical. If you’ve ever struggled to say “no,” or feared that boundaries would push someone away, this episode will shift the way you think about love and connection.
When you’re done listening to this one, check out this episode on the Man Alive podcast on how to make sure you’re not losing yourself. When we don’t feel worthy, we often give parts of ourselves away. This is a great take on how to make sure you are creating your life based on your own truth and aliveness, versus going along with a life that someone else expected or demanded of you.
Understanding & Managing Your Emotional Energy: A Framework to Heal and Reclaim Your Power
Links:
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Connect with Karen
Understanding & Managing Your Emotional Energy: A Framework to Heal and Reclaim Your Power
Bio:
Karen founded Journey Beyond Divorce in 2010, after discovering that the pain of dissolving her marriage had been the very stimulus for her personal transformation. During her three and a half year tumultuous divorce, Karen’s life began to improve exponentially. With much hard work, she embraced her new life, created healthy friendships, found her true voice, and learned to set suitable boundaries and let go of what she could not control.
Karen is the mother of two emerging adults, a graduate of the world’s leading coaching institute, Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching (iPEC) and a Certified Member of the International Coaching Federation (ICF). Karen’s other accomplishments include work as a NYS Lobbyist, Health Advocate, Community Organizer, and Chairperson of a NYS non-profit organization, Director of Sales and Marketing, and successful small business owner.
Transcript:
Shana James (00:01)
Hello and welcome to this episode of Practicing Love. I’m your host, Shana James, and I’m excited to be here today with a woman I find incredibly inspiring and dear to my heart. She works with divorce and the journey beyond divorce. She’s the founder and chief visionary of Journey Beyond Divorce, which is one of the biggest coaching companies in the nation, with more than half a dozen coaches.
I’m excited today to hear from you, as I’ve been interviewing experts about what they’ve struggled with in relationships and how they’re now practicing love. I don’t believe we just overcome something and poof—it’s gone. It takes ongoing effort and energy. We try to have it feel as little like work as possible, but it is a practice.
As we dive in, some of you may be in a stable relationship and some may be recovering your confidence after divorce and starting over. This is going to be applicable to everyone as we talk about building self-worth and knowing you are a prize.
Is there anything you want to say to get started about your journey through or beyond divorce?
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (01:01)
I’ll jump on the last thing you said. I think we’re all meant to practice and refine our ability to love until we meet our maker. It’s a long journey, but for those of us who choose to be on it, I think it’s exciting, inspiring, and fruitful.
Shana James (01:28)
I love how you said that. That’s how I hold it too—that we’re continually learning to love more deeply, to receive love, to love better. And I know that’s a struggle for many people too.
Can you tell us a little bit about either your current relationship status or your history? With your company, Journey Beyond Divorce, one might imagine you’ve gone through a divorce. What would help us understand your relationship journey as we talk about setting boundaries and building self-worth?
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (01:59)
Oh gosh. I haven’t been in a relationship for well over a decade. I did begin dating at the beginning of 2025. It’s been a very slow and patience-producing process. If someone is anxious and wants it to happen right away, dating can be hard. But I started back in January. I’ve met some interesting people, had memorable and lovely interactions, some good chuckles.
I’ve even started putting together a little stand-up comedy act from my dating experiences. Then it kind of fizzled out. It’s funny—like they say, “a body in motion stays in motion.” Well, once my Match subscription ended and I didn’t sign up for my next speed-dating event, I realized, “Oh, I’m actually not dating anymore. I have to start all over again.”
So my current status is: I’m about to sign up for eHarmony, and I’ve committed to getting back out there. I really like speed dating, so I’m going to book one or two events. I’m impatient, and with speed dating you meet 12 men in two hours—done!
Shana James (03:22)
I think speed dating is brilliant. You get to meet many people in a short amount of time, and you get a feel for someone in person instead of just messaging back and forth and then realizing later, “Oh, I didn’t really get who this person was.” I love that you’re out there. (Note to all the single men listening!)
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (03:49)
Yes, I am open and available.
As for my history: I launched Journey Beyond Divorce because I went through a very long, arduous, and high-conflict divorce about 19 years ago. My children were very young. Honestly, I was a bit of a hot mess—that might be an understatement.
After my divorce, once I had done some personal work, I started connecting the dots back to my earlier relationships and all the way to my relationship with my mom and dad. That was so informative for me.
I have a saying that nobody ever understands: “You didn’t lick it off the grass.” People always ask, “What does that mean?” It’s similar to “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.” In other words, your mother and father gave it to you—willingly or not.
For me, I always thought I was the lucky one in relationships – never that the guy was lucky to be with me.
Shana James (04:54)
Ah. So you always thought you were lucky to be with him.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (05:13)
Yes. Red flag number one.
Shana James (05:15)
Right. And sometimes he didn’t think he was lucky to be with you either?
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (05:19)
Exactly. And as a result, I ended up in really unhealthy, imbalanced, dysfunctional relationships. Then I got married—and it was a very high-conflict relationship. I married someone incredibly charismatic with an off-the-charts IQ. That was “my thing.”
All the guys I dated were super smart. But nobody ever told me about emotional intelligence. I was only looking for intelligence. When I finally learned about EQ, I thought, “Oh, that makes a lot of sense.”
Another realization was that none of the men I dated shared my number one value: relationships.
I’ve always been a relationship girl—girlfriends, guy friends, family—I’m deeply relationship-oriented. But when I looked back, none of my partners had deep connections with parents, siblings, or even friends.
Shana James (07:05)
Wow. That’s such an important reflection—and I love your reminder to be gentle and compassionate with ourselves when we don’t see things like that. We’re often not trained to look in those ways.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (07:25)
Exactly. That’s a big milestone of my journey.
Shana James (07:29)
Now it feels like you can see that a man being with you would be lucky.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (07:47)
Yes. I now know with every ounce of my being that I’m a prize. And I want to find someone who’s equally a prize. For me, the important thing was realizing that I am a prize. I deserve a relationship with connection, emotional intimacy, spiritual intimacy, and physical intimacy. I didn’t always know that.
Shana James (07:53)
Yes. I was going to ask how you came to know that, but maybe it came through the struggle. Let’s go there—what’s something you struggled with?
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (08:27)
Self-worth was foundational for me. I didn’t realize it, because I left home at 19, was professionally successful, and had confidence in my work life. But I was equally unsuccessful in each of my romantic relationships.
Boundaries were another big struggle. I didn’t know what a boundary was, and I didn’t have them. Now I teach boundaries, starting with the most important one: internal boundaries.
I was married to a high-conflict individual with a big personality. Without boundaries, you get steamrolled. And I did. But I learned them.
My children were barely in grade school when the divorce finalized. That gave me a decade to teach them boundaries—not just for navigating their dad, but for all the complex personalities they’d encounter.
So boundaries are something I learned, love teaching, and practice daily. My belief is: healthy relationships require healthy boundaries. You cannot have a healthy relationship without that.
Shana James (10:33)
Agreed, agreed. Okay, before we go back to the internal boundary you teach—so people can self-identify and say, Oh, I’m in a relationship where I don’t have boundaries, this is what that looks like—what was happening that, looking back now, you realize was because you didn’t have boundaries? You mentioned being steamrolled as one example.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (11:00)
Yes. There’s so much on the communication front. My ex-husband had anger management issues and was very verbally and emotionally abusive. And I would just take it. I’d sit there and receive it—and sometimes even believe it.
And when it came to finances, for example, I’d say, “I’m so uncomfortable with our debt.” And he’d respond, “We’re deficit spending like the rest of the country. What’s the big deal?”
Everything was in my name because his credit was already shot. When we met, I had AAA credit; he had, well, basically triple-F credit. So the house, the cars—everything went under my name. He was deficit spending, and I could have said no. It was my social security number, my authority. But I didn’t. I had no boundaries, and I destroyed my credit.
It’s not like he was holding a gun to my head. I just wasn’t equipped with the concept, the understanding, or even the familiarity with boundaries.
Shana James (12:29)
Right. And yes, he wasn’t holding a gun to your head—but that sense of belonging, or of being loved, can feel like life or death if we think we’re about to lose it.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (12:41)
Exactly. And there was loyalty. And he was smart and charismatic, so sometimes the way he explained things almost made sense. I’d think, Well, why not? And then later I’d catch myself: Wait a second, wait a second…
Shana James (12:56)
Right. So you made decisions—credit being a very concrete example—where you didn’t say no, even though you could see the negative impact on your life and probably your children’s lives. Was there anything else, maybe less concrete, where boundaries showed up?
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (13:27)
Yes. At one point, we were both in the same industry. I was selling commercial printing. A man joined my company who had previously worked with my ex. They’d had a big fight. This new colleague was incredibly successful, and sometimes he’d throw me small accounts. I was thrilled.
I mentioned it at home, and my husband said: “He’s our enemy. You are never to speak to him. Don’t engage with him. Don’t take any accounts from him.”
I thought: What? This guy is nothing but nice to me. Your issue is your issue. But my husband accused me of disloyalty. And he always threatened divorce: “If you do that, I’ll divorce you.”
That was probably the first time I said, “You can’t tell me how to behave with another human being. You can’t tell me to dislike someone who’s being kind.”
But he was absolutely certain that if I took those accounts, I was the most disloyal wife on the planet.
Shana James (15:06)
Wow. And it wasn’t even about your well-being—it was about your loyalty to him.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (15:13)
Exactly. And I would sometimes think, That doesn’t even make sense. But other times I’d start doubting myself. There’s a saying, “Don’t be so open-minded that your brains fall out.” I leaned too far that way. I’d think, Well, maybe he has a point.
But then I’d go to work the next day, and this guy was just friendly and kind. It was hard.
Shana James (15:47)
Yes. And I hear that tension—on one hand valuing curiosity and openness, on the other needing to care for yourself. I think boundaries can actually allow us to keep curiosity and openness without losing ourselves.
There are ways to hold boundaries that hurt relationships, and ways to hold them that support relationships. It can be complicated.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (16:46)
Yes. When we first begin, boundaries can swing like a pendulum. I went from no boundaries to really rigid, almost hostile boundaries. Over time, I found a healthier space.
But when you’re with someone charismatic, intelligent, and 1000% certain, it’s vitally important to know who you are and what your values are. That’s why we do the work of identifying values and priorities. Because then you know: this is my lane. Nobody pulls me out of my lane. I can choose to step out, but no one controls me.
And that brings me to the internal boundary I wanted to talk about. Many of us are raised—certainly I was—to believe: If I’m triggered or upset, it’s because of someone or something outside of me.
Shana James (17:26)
Yes—nobody gets to pull me or control me. Please, go on.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (17:43)
So when I talk about boundaries, people often think of protective boundaries: How do I protect myself from someone who’s hurtful?
But before that comes the containment boundary: What do I do when I’m upset?
If I lash out, blame, accuse, belittle, or berate, I’m not containing myself. If I behave badly and then say, “Well, you made me do it,” that’s a broken boundary too.
The internal boundary is: Where am I not taking full responsibility for my thoughts, feelings, and actions?
Shana James (18:45)
Ooh, I love that. Will you say it again?
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (19:05)
You cannot make me feel. You’re not that powerful.
If I feel something, it’s much more likely because of my history, my family of origin, my life experiences, my perspective.
Let’s say you get angry and start yelling. Three different people might respond three different ways. One person, from an abusive family, is devastated—hiding, terrified. Another, also from a high-conflict background, gets in your face, yelling back: “You made me so angry!” The third person, from a healthy background, thinks: Wow, she’s having a rough day. That wasn’t appropriate, but tomorrow I’ll talk to her calmly and let her know it didn’t work for me.
Could you really have made three people feel three completely different things?
Shana James (19:59)
Right. That’s such a powerful example. And with the healthy person, we’re actually going to have a conversation.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (20:12)
No, they felt what they felt based on their life experience. And I think that when I’m teaching this, it’s often a huge aha for people. It was for me too. Like, wait, what do you mean? And yet…
Shana James (20:21)
It’s a hard one to let go of.
Yeah, when I work with people on this, it’s such a hard pill to swallow. There’s so much pride wrapped up in it, and then we also have to take personal responsibility. People often say, But don’t they have any part in it? Of course they do. They have their part, and you have yours. The only thing you actually have control over is your part. So let’s get you conscious and coming from that place of awareness.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (21:00)
100%. And the beauty of boundaries is, yes, I have to take full responsibility for myself, but that frees me. It invites love in, because I have a protective layer. The boundary doesn’t keep love out—it just protects me. And when I’m protected, I can actually have a deeper love, a deeper…
Shana James (21:09)
Yes.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (21:28)
…an expanse of freedom in relationships, because I own what’s mine. I don’t clean up their side of the street, I stay in my lane.
Shana James (21:42)
I love that distinction—that a boundary doesn’t keep love out. I don’t think I’ve heard it said that way before, and it’s really beautiful. Because right, a boundary isn’t about closing your heart or not letting in love. It’s about not taking on what isn’t yours. I don’t want to use the word toxic because it’s overused these days, but—something unhealthy.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (22:11)
Yeah, unhealthy.
Shana James (22:12)
Unhealthy.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (22:13)
Exactly. And I think, again with the pendulum, when we first start setting boundaries it feels like a steel wall. I definitely had one. But eventually it shifts—more like a garden gate or a picket fence. You get to choose when to open it, when to close it. It’s more porous, more flexible.
Shana James (22:28)
Yes.
Yes, when to open.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (22:38)
And I don’t have to worry it’s not a steel wall, because I’ve gotten skilled with my boundaries. Closing the garden gate is all I need.
Shana James (22:48)
I love that. I often work with people around having a “no,” which is really just a boundary. When you’re so clear that you can say it fully, you actually rarely need to say it—because you already carry yourself in a way that doesn’t invite people to push against it.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (23:14)
And yet so many of my clients—especially in high-conflict divorces, which I specialize in—they have the most wishy-washy “no’s.” I’ll tell them, your “no” is so limp and sad that of course he or she is going to plow right over it. A weak “no” invites the plow.
Shana James (23:16)
Mm-hmm. Interesting. Yeah.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (23:40)
If you’re saying yes, mean yes. If you’re saying no, say it firmly. Many of my clients are a hot mess because they’re married to someone more high-conflict—black-and-white thinkers, very blaming and accusing. My clients tend to be more fear-based. So they’ll say things like, Well, I was thinking maybe I wouldn’t help, I’m not sure if I want to… And I’ll say, No. Just say: “I’m sorry, I’m not available. If you need help next Wednesday, I can help you then.”
Boundaries themselves aren’t complicated. What makes them complicated are the emotional tentacles—people-pleasing, codependency, fear of conflict, childhood trauma. It’s not the boundary that’s hard, it’s the stories and unconscious beliefs that make you break out in hives when you even think about setting one.
Shana James (24:53)
Yes.
No.
Right—and nice guys don’t set boundaries either.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (25:14)
Exactly. So when we’re struggling with boundaries, it’s rarely about the nuts and bolts. It’s about the stories we carry—good girls don’t set boundaries, nice guys don’t say no. All of that.
Shana James (25:33)
I remember a vivid moment when a colleague asked me to lead a workshop. I really needed downtime, so I said no. Then I hung up and cried for hours. The fear was he’d never trust me again, never ask me again—that it would end my career. All these huge assumptions.
And when our “no” isn’t respected from a young age, or when we’re bullied out of it, those stories live inside us.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (26:17)
100%. And another thing I’ve learned recently is that the body holds the score. It’s not just thoughts or beliefs—your whole system gets dysregulated. You go into fight or flight so often you can’t remember what you were about to say, you can’t think clearly.
That’s why somatic healing is so powerful. The body is wise. Our spirit and intuition are wise. Our fear is loud, and our logic wants to override intuition. But the body holds the score. When we release that, when we can settle into an easeful body, everything else follows with more ease.
Shana James (27:16)
Hmm. I love that. What were some of the things that helped you start setting boundaries when you hadn’t before?
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (27:33)
I remember my first boundary like it was yesterday. We had an English tutor in the house, the kids were maybe four and six in the living room. I was coming down the stairs when I got hit with a cussing, nasty outburst. I don’t even remember what I supposedly did wrong, but it was intense.
Shana James (27:59)
Thank you.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (28:03)
And I was standing there, and suddenly I just looked over at the front door. There was a table in the entryway with my car keys. It was almost like a divine download: Your children are fine. Take the keys and leave. And I thought, That’s scary. Can I really do this?
Shana James (28:21)
Wow.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (28:28)
But I felt directed to leave. I grabbed the keys and just drove away. And I thought, Oh my God, I just did this thing. At the time I didn’t even know it was a boundary—I just thought I was taking care of myself.
Shana James (28:47)
You just set a boundary. You took care of yourself.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (28:54)
Yes, and it was so liberating. I realized I didn’t have to sit there and have nastiness slung at me. I was in therapy at the time, and it was so helpful to have a sounding board each week, to piece apart what was happening and start putting some teeth into my boundaries.
Shana James (29:03)
Yes.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (29:24)
That was the beginning of really learning boundaries.
Shana James (29:25)
Yes, yes. And from there, what else helped you continue to set boundaries?
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (29:35)
There were a million things. I was in a three-and-a-half-year high-conflict divorce. I asked my husband to move up to the attic. We had a four-floor English Tudor, with a finished basement and an attic—so we were lucky. He did, but then he moved back in. At some point, I realized: I can’t control him. Let me move. So I moved up to the attic.
My kids were about four and six, and I worried about not being on the same floor with them at night. I was the one they always came to. So my first boundary was: I’m moving upstairs, I’m not moving back, and you’re not welcome up there. There were two locks—one on the second floor and one on my bedroom on the third floor.
I even bought my kids walkie talkies. I made a game of it: Hey guys, if you wake up in the middle of the night, just walkie-talkie me. You can come upstairs and we’ll have play dates up here. I did whatever I could. I lived up there for over three years. It was either boiling hot or freezing cold depending on the season.
My ex… another boundary was with him.
Shana James (30:29)
Wow.
You walkie-talkie me. Wow.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (30:58)
He was really verbose. He’d beg and then berate, beg and then berate. It felt like Chinese water torture. He would stand outside the door talking at me for hours.
My stepfather, who worked for the New York Post, gave me a construction headset. So I’d put music on, put the headset on, light a candle, and try to meditate so I didn’t have to hear him. Without realizing it, I was building boundaries. Eventually the police got involved, I got an order of protection—lots of bigger boundaries over time. It was a total hot mess. And I had no choice but to learn.
Shana James (31:32)
Hmm.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (31:57)
Truth be told, I was utterly unskillful in the beginning. I’m sure I was shaming and blaming and just a hot mess. I think it’s important to say, because people hear us on podcasts and think, Don’t they have their act together? But I was the hottest mess—the most broken woman. I’ve just worked really, really hard, and now I pay forward what I’ve learned.
Shana James (32:18)
Yeah, exactly. My ex-husband and I sometimes talk about how much I’ve grown. I wasn’t someone who shamed or blamed, because my mom did that and I didn’t want to. But I was emotionally volatile, unstable, and I often threatened the end of the relationship: This isn’t going to work anymore.
I wasn’t grounded or connected. He didn’t feel heard in a lot of ways. He had his part, too. But it’s important for people to know: we’re all still practicing. Nobody’s perfect. Which means nobody’s alone.
Thank you for sharing not just your wisdom, but also your struggles. For being vulnerable. For showing what’s possible. Is there anything else you’d like to share for people who are starting to understand what a boundary is and how to set one?
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (33:27)
I’ll say this: I have two children. My daughter came out of our marriage with some difficult tendencies. Setting boundaries with her was very different than setting them with a husband I hated or who was abusive.
Since your podcast is Practicing Love, I’ll wrap up with this. My daughter struggled with even wanting to be alive for years. I was beside myself. I was helping people all over the world, but didn’t know if I could keep my own daughter alive. It was about a five-year period.
Shana James (34:30)
Yeah.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (34:36)
One day, I prayed. I asked: How do I do this? How do I keep her alive? How do I keep from killing her myself? And the answer I got was: Just be love.
Shana James (34:39)
Ooh. Be love.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (35:00)
That was it. Just be love.
So that became my mantra. When I woke up and she was smoking, leaving her stuff everywhere, living in my little cottage’s living room—what would love do? Love would clean up her stuff without saying a word. Love would let her sleep as long as she needed. Love would be patient.
And five or six years later, she’s doing fabulous. Just be love. It’s simple, and incredibly powerful.
Shana James (35:43)
I’m so glad.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (35:53)
It’s my mantra. What would it look like if I just was love?
Shana James (36:00)
This is why we get along so well — because that’s my mantra too. That’s what I’ve come to: all I want to do is be love.
When we are being love in our communication, in our relationships, in every dynamic, we show up very differently than when we forget. And we can still be love with boundaries, with clarity, with preferences. We can be love while honoring ourselves and our sovereignty.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (36:37)
Because being love begins with self-love. You can’t be love if you don’t love yourself.
Shana James (36:44)
Yes. Knowing that you are worthy, no matter what.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (36:51)
And we’re all worthy. We’re all worthy of the best life has for us. But if you grew up with other messages, it can take decades to learn. The people listening to your podcast are lucky—you’re talking about it openly.
Shana James (37:09)
Yes, and for most of us, it does take time.
Thank you, Karen. And thank you for supporting people through such a difficult time. For those on the verge of divorce, going through divorce, and maybe a high-conflict divorce, where can they find you?
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (37:36)
I started my podcast in 2016. I have over 430 episodes. It’s called Journey Beyond Divorce. No matter your question — legal, financial, co-parenting, money, emotional regulation, fear, anxiety — it’s there. I’ve interviewed some of the most brilliant leaders in the U.S. and around the world.
Our website is Journey Beyond Divorce.com. We also offer a free one-hour Rapid Relief Call. It’s a chance to do some coaching, figure out what you need, and see if we’re a good fit to work together.
Shana James (38:34)
Thank you—we’ll put the link in the show notes. And thank you for being here and being you, and illuminating us on the need to build self-worth and confidence, and how relationships are a powerful way to do so.
Karen McMahon, Journey Beyond (38:42)
Thank you for inviting me. It was lovely.
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