When one partner’s attachment style is anxious, and the other’s is avoidant, it can be painful for both. But you can learn to consciously communicate and create ways for each person to feel safe and valued. Today’s guests talk about how to lovingly collaborate and negotiate, to meet the needs and desires of each partner.
If you’re not satisfied with your love or sex-life, and could use some insights into what makes a person want more of you, tell me more about yourself here and we’ll schedule a time to talk.
Anxious + Avoidant Attachment Style Doesn’t Have To = The End: Show Notes
Have you ever loved someone, but found it challenging or painful to be in a relationship?
I laughed a bit as I wrote that because I think most of us would answer YES!
There are different reasons for this, but one of the main reasons that’s getting a lot of attention these days is attachment styles.
Have you explored your attachment style in romantic relationships?
To give a very basic description, attachment styles refer to how you engage in relationships (romantic and otherwise). There are 3 basic attachment styles: Secure, Anxious and Avoidant. Though, we can exhibit aspects of different styles at different times of our lives, and in different phases of relationship.
While I have become more secure over the years, I lean more toward an anxious style in the beginning of a relationship, and then have avoidant tendencies as a relationship progresses. My partner and I often joke with each other about our avoidant tendencies, since we thankfully both have them.
It’s likely you exhibit one of these styles more often, but you may also have secure, anxious, and avoidant moments. Dr. Stan Tatkin is a well known attachment therapist who created his own designations for these three attachment styles — Anchor, Wave and Island. To me, they feel more neutral, and easier to stomach, as we dissect our relational styles.
It’s incredibly powerful to understand your style and tendencies, and that of your partner, because love and good feelings alone don’t create healthy, lasting relationships. We need to understand the underpinnings of our conflict and upsets.
Today’s Practicing Love podcast guests, Jason and Violet Lange are a conscious couple, who both work as life and love coaches. They recently created a program for couples called Evolutionary Couples, where they give guidance for communication, intimacy, shared purpose, and more. Today, they get vulnerable about their attachment styles and the impact on their relationship. They’ve named one of their dynamics The Grenade at the Wall! Have a guess of who’s the grenade and who’s the wall?
It is so helpful to hear from a couple who consciously shares about their dynamic, without making either person wrong, and the ways they collaborate when they have breakdowns. In our powerful conversation we discussed…
- How to stay away from the relationship fantasies that make us feel bad and wrong about ourselves
- The true passion that arises from a sober view of romantic relationships
- How to lovingly navigate a partner’s insecurities
- What creates relational safety
- The power of couples naming patterns and cycles
- How to recognize when triggers are happening, rather than getting sucked in
- The importance of bringing energy to a relationship, rather than showing up empty
- Staying connected in the midst of desire conflicts
- Dealing with socks on the floor and other annoying habits
- The sacred practice of sexual generosity
- Building trust through rupture and repair
Jason and Violet have a quite extraordinary love story, and they both started their relationship by being as honest as they could, to make sure they could be fully themselves with each other. They are also parents, which helps if you’re a parent who feels like you’re trying to keep a relationship alive in the midst of child-care and an overwhelming number of life responsibilities.
When you’re done with this episode, check out Jason’s episode on the Man Alive podcast, about a missing link to true power and great sex! And let me know if you have any questions or aha’s as you listen to either one.
Links:
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For Women: Modern dating doesn’t have to be a nightmare for women
Connect with Jason and Violet
Bio:
Jason and Violet’s relationship purpose is to Radiate Love & Inspire Others into their Orbit of Depth & Fun. They coach men and women towards success in dating, intimacy and relationships, with over twenty years of combined experience.
Through their own journey, individually and together, they’ve worked through anxious / avoidant attachment patterns, reverse polarity, power dynamics, financial stress, parenting challenges, sexual trauma, fertility struggles, chore complaints and more.
Jason and Violet believe relationship is a spiritual path; it’s not easy, but with intention, you CAN cultivate ease…as well as passion, connection, and trust.
They met in a dream that Violet had, three weeks before meeting in real life (at a meet-up event on lucid dreaming!) But the heart of their love story is in the messy, hard, playful work they’ve put in over eight years, to make their cosmic dream a reality for themselves and for other couples.
Transcript:
Shana James (00:16.595)
Welcome to this episode of Practicing Love. I’m your host, Shana James, and excited to be here with an amazing couple doing incredible work in the world, Jason and Violet Lange. Jason is a men’s guide and facilitator, and Violet is a coach for women on love and dating and intimacy. So thank you to both so much for being here and also for being willing to be honest and vulnerable and talk about your challenges, struggles, not only for this podcast, but in front of each other.
We know that’s what it takes, right? Being able to talk to each other. But it’s a really special gift for people to get to hear and witness the two of you doing this in live time. So thank you.
Jason & Violet (01:08.634)
Our pleasure. This is going to be fun. Excited to be here.
Shana James (01:11.381)
Should we do a little like when Harry met Sally? Do you remember that movie or am I aging myself? Okay. You know, how did you meet? How did you find each other?
Violet (01:15.634)
We have kind of a cosmic love story because I was dating someone who was not Jason casually, and it felt like it wasn’t the right fit. I’m very sensitive and he was very sarcastic and I was kind of praying, meditating, just trying to figure out what I should do with that situation.
And one night I had a dream and this guy came up to me and put his hand on my heart and said, “Joe’s a 10 and you’re a 100. What are you doing with that guy?” And so I woke up laughing and my heart felt really warm and I took it as, okay, maybe I’m not supposed to be with Joe. And then three weeks later at a meetup event on lucid dreaming, the same guy from my dream walked up to me.
I said to the woman I stand next to, holy shit, I had a dream about that guy. Which is totally cool when you’re at a lucid dreaming event. Had I been at Trader Joe’s or something, maybe someone would have thought I was a bit crazy. And that was Jason. He introduced himself to me and we had many bumps along the road from that meeting until being officially a couple and everything.
But the night that I had the dream, he was in an Ayahuasca ceremony and was talking to grandmother and said, I want to be met by the feminine. And so that’s how we met. Kind of crazy. Pretty wild.
Shana James (02:41.141)
Wow, that is beautiful. Anything on your side, Jason? What it was like in your ceremony that night?
Jason (02:50.741)
Yeah, I had been on a journey. I’d been in a long term relationship that was great for my growth, but not my long term partner. It was really hard to leave that. And then I had a year of, I’m going to finally be the bachelor I always wanted to be and have all these experiences.
And I just fell right back into my old habits with women, and being kind of needy, and it wasn’t working out.
It was towards the end of the year that I was at the ceremony and it actually started in the ceremony itself because as I took the medicine. I was like: I’m ready to go. Let’s do this. I want to do my deep work. And I was stone cold sober. Just nothing hit, which is something I’ve wrestled with in the past.
So I kept taking more, kept taking more. And basically the whole night went by and I was stone cold. The medicine didn’t work for me.
Shana James (03:33.342)
Wow.
Jason (03:48.533)
Anyway, the beauty of that kind of medicine is I noticed I’m complaining to grandmother, the great feminine: I’m here, meet me…so I’m still chasing this thing and had this very deep moment of catching that – realizing that relaxing and then with as much agentic force as I think I’ve ever felt saying to the universe: I’m done chasing. I’m ready to be met. Meet me.
And then in about 20 seconds I went on a pretty wild journey for the next couple hours, alone. It so happens that was the night that she had a dream. And so it’s kind of wild, kind of crazy. We like to think I reached through the dream space and let her know I’m coming.
Shana James (04:19.871)
Amazing. I feel a little bit speechless. It’s such a powerful story. And for people who are a little bit more in general constructs or societal constructs, they think, what the hell? For me, loving to dance and play in those cosmic realms, it makes sense to me but it also still sometimes shocks me what is possible, and how much more connected we are, on so many levels that we cannot see or hear, or even sometimes feel with our physical selves.
Jason (05:20.863)
Absolutely. And then our relationship kind of took off from there.
Shana James (05:21.941)
You referred Violet to some bumps along the road. I’m curious, because I know I’ve had cosmically started relationships where in the cosmic realm, we were incredible partners, but in whatever this realm is there are some challenges. So what were some of the bumps that happened?
Violet (05:57.704)
I had done enough work, or had enough heartbreak that I wasn’t like, my God, this is my soulmate husband. I knew enough to check myself from getting too far into fantasy land. But I did have things that were important to me, one of which was to always bring my full truth, even if it was not accepted.
I was married in my twenties for five years in what was a sexless marriage, and at the end it was basically like an emotionless marriage as well. I was committed to not repeating that, but that meant I had to show up a lot more authentically. And that meant that, on our second date, he asked, what is it that you’re wanting?
The old me would have been like, I don’t know, you know to like see what evolves and find a partner. And instead I was like, I want to be in a healthy relationship and I want to be a mom and I want to have two kids. It doesn’t have to be with you but this is what I’m wanting.
And he was not at that time wanting to be in a relationship. He was curious if maybe he’d want to explore polyamory. There were a lot of questions on his side, of relational structure and timing. And part of our early dance was that I wanted more, but I discovered that I was willing to be with what arose without negating my desires, but also without pushing my agenda, which is kind of a fine balance.
And he was willing to be with my messiness, when I was feeling pained or when I was feeling uncertain. And after three or four months, we kind of found our way together, in a deeper way. In the early stages I had a lot of my fears come up, a lot of my insecurities. What did you have come up Jason?
Jason (07:55.295)
Our first big night out together is where this conflict arose. I said, I’m not sure I want to settle and jump right back into something. I had just been in a five year thing. And she was kind of clear what she wanted.
So it was kind of an intense, somewhat contentious triggered night because there was this simultaneous experience of, wow, I feel really connected and drawn to this person. And the question: Are we a right fit right now?
There was a moment, I think we were driving back from something, and we had been doing some authentic relating practices and she was pretty self-aware, and she was like: I think I want to go. I think I’m done.
I just had an intuition then that I wanted to go deeper. I want stay connected. And so we ended up going to a diner and then we actually went back to my house, my place. And initially I was gonna sleep on the couch, cause I had this just weird energy. And then it was a big moment for me cause I thought: I actually want to be close to this woman. I felt compelled to be close to her but being sexual didn’t feel right.
And so I said that. I said “I would actually like to sleep in the same bed with you and just not have any sexual contact, but just be close to you.” And she was open to that.
In a way, I think that templated something for us, that even in conflict we can come back to connection. For me it was a really novel experience because I really hadn’t been in a circumstance like that, where I could be authentic, and my partner could be authentic, where we could actually have a conflict of desire, but stay connected.
That was revolutionary for my family system, my being. And there was enough there that I think we both had this experience of, wow, we don’t know where this is going and how to label it or traditionally what it might look like. But there’s something here that keeps compelling us to come back to connection with each other and keep exploring it.
For me, it was an experience of wow, even though we’re not totally on the same page of everything, I can feel her leaning in and I want to lean in. That was very different for me.
Shana James (10:24.873)
There’s so much in there around leaning in when there is uncertainty. What will this become? Who are we going to be to each other? And what happens if we just keep bringing our truth and not expecting it to fall into the in the box fantasy? Which I think from what you’ve said, and from what I now live…the fantasies, they’re dead in a way, overall Disney fantasy of this is what a relationship looks like
Even being able to start a relationship with conflict and not thinking: this means this isn’t going to work, so we’re out…I think it was Alison Armstrong who said something like: if you’re incredibly drawn to someone or the sexual chemistry is so strong in the beginning, run the other way, because you’re probably playing out some old patterns. So, you two did it for real.
Jason (11:34.291)
Yeah, we had enough of a spark, but there was like a soberness to it too. Even though it was kind of a cosmic story, some of that didn’t get clear till later. There was just a realness and a spark, but I don’t think either of us were like flooded, in the sense of my God, I’m falling in love with this person and I’ve lost myself. It was more that I knew where I was and I got a sense she knew where she was, and there was something very real about it.
Shana James (12:07.775)
And mature, sounds like. That sobriety, or maturity with spark, is really powerful. And I think some people can miss the spark when it doesn’t feel flooded, like the fantasy. What were you going to say, Violet?
Violet (12:22.403)
Yeah. I think one thing that helped me that evening is that I felt safe with Jason, with his presence, but also safe enough in myself, with the work I had done. He shared his pivotal moment. My pivotal moment was when we were driving back to his place.
I can’t remember exactly what stage of the date, and I had been feeling triggered because I had felt this connection, and the dream, and all the things. And in my mind I was expecting something different. And I remember telling myself, I’m just going to take a chance and keep revealing. There’s this Buddhist practice where you just name the emotion as it arises, and you just keep naming it. He had this really old Vita pickup truck, and we’re cruising down the 101 or something in LA and I’m just saying: shame, fear, sadness, curiosity…
It was like three minutes. I was just naming my emotions and it was only on our second date. And he just received that all .He wasn’t like, what are you doing? Or like, why do you feel these things? Or get over yourself or come on. He listened and I revealed. And I think that also set a template of, it’s okay for me to reveal the fullness of who I am with this person.
Shana James (13:46.676)
Yes, I love that – the fullness of who you are. That way you can be in relationship and actually be the fullness of who you are, instead of trying to be someone you’re not, or even just dulling yourself down, or being worried that someone’s not going to love this part of you. It’s beautiful.
Okay, can we dive in a little bit to the struggle? One of them that you want to share?
Violet (14:20.445)
Sure. We call this the grenade at the wall because I’m the grenade and he’s the wall. I have an anxious attachment style, and it used to be more anxious. I would say I’m moving towards secure, but I will get really riled up, my nervous system and I will then sometimes provoke or test or attack.
In my experience, I’ve been withholding resentments, and so they’ve gotta come out at some point.
In his experience, it’s like, my God, you’re angry all the time.
I think, well, if you only knew all the stuff that I was not bringing up to you, out of a desire for harmony, out of a desire for respecting you, and also out of a desire for me catching myself, like what is just a mood or a projection versus what is really a truth I need to bring to him.
So we sometimes have this pattern. It still crops up where I get frustrated, and I will go on attack. And then the most vicious part of it, from my side is that I will threaten the relationship.
Shana James (15:37.388)
I used to do that.
Violet (15:40.485)
Like, I’ve been wanting more sex and it’s not happening and I hope you want me…I mean there’s gotta be someone who wants to fuck me…intense things that I should not say, that should not come out of my mouth, but from this wounded place I’m kind of poking. And then he has his dynamic in it.
Jason
Yeah, I’m the wall. She brought this to me once and actually I think it’s hilarious in that she’s said, “Sometimes talking to you is like talking to a wall, you know.”
I have deep presence, but I can be very internal in my experience and literally sometimes just forget to share, and invite her. Yeah, I’m so in my own kind of process from my family of origin. And then when I get stressed, I withdraw even more into that. Paradoxically, if I’m not getting enough connection, I withdraw from connection even more.
And so often my inner attention is on her, or the relationship or taking care of the family. But it’s all happening in here. So she has no idea what’s going on for me. And then I end up, in a way, neglecting our actual connection in the moment, because I’m so worried about something in the future. And so she starts to feel distant from me and insecure in her own way, wondering what’s going on? What’s happening for you?
And then sometimes the only way to break the wall is to throw the grenade. And that was kind of our crude version of that. And then I would kind of pop back into my body and I’d be there and I’d be present, and my frustration or anger or grief or something would come through. And then that would actually relax her because I was feeling.
Shana James (17:11.541)
Yes. Isn’t that fascinating?
Jason (17:37.714)
And I would say the other layer that I’ve uncovered in this for me is again going back to family of origin. It was this sense of feeling that the feminine is mad at me, from my relationship with my mom. It wasn’t even at me, but it was being around a feminine presence that was upset. And so my nervous system is super sensitive to that.
And so I map it to, you’re always mad at me because it triggers this deep thing in me, which isn’t really reality all the time. But that dance played itself out quite a bit, a number of times in all kinds of different capacities. And then, like she said, it’s not that we’ve gotten rid of it, but we’re a lot more refined.
Shana James (18:30.931)
Right. Well, that’s why the podcast is called Practicing Love, because it’s not that we get rid of these patterns, but I do think they get more refined. The fact that you two can name this so clearly is something many people don’t do, or don’t even think about doing. If we can actually track though – I do this, then you do this, then you do this, then I do this. And this is the downward spiral, and we can witness it together from the outside. Then there’s so much more consciousness and love available to navigate it.
Jason & Violet (18:55.995)
Yeah. And admittedly we had help. We’ve had to call in outside support, and we have our therapist on a bat dial, who we can call in a crisis, who knows us and knows our dance. And that’s been quite pivotal.
Practicing is such a great frame for it! We just moved, and we have another child coming and there’s just been a lot we’ve been managing in our lives. And it was maybe two months ago, for the first time I think I was like, it’s happening. I can feel I’ve been kind of lost in myself.
And it would be about 24 hours before she had a conversation with me, where she came in and said, “I can’t feel you, what’s going on? Where are you? Is this ever gonna work?”
I could feel it. And I could feel why her nervous system would feel that way, because I’ve been gone. And so I came towards her. And I think I literally just initiated sex. The whole dance was subverted. That’s something she had been able to communicate to me before: sometimes I just want to feel you coming towards me. That’s it. I just literally want to feel your energy coming towards me.
And that was an example, I think, of the practice paying off where I realized, wow, that was way easier than the big fight. But it took me tracking what was happening inside me, and a little bit inside her, and feeling like, yeah, it makes sense. This would be the point where I could just trail off here, and she would have to come forward and pull me out. But I could change the trajectory of this dance a little bit, and just come towards her, and then she didn’t have to get out the grenade.
Shana James (20:50.365)
Amazing. And what that says to me is that you were recognizing the impact you were having on the other person. You could easily look and think, God, she gets so angry. She’s pissed off. She’s just like my mom. She throws grenades. A
But to realize, if recognize my part in this, and I do my work and I shift, then she actually doesn’t have to throw a grenade. We can all shirk responsibility or take responsibility. And if we take responsibility for our own things, of course things go better.
You’ve got your own thing on your side, Violet, that you get to watch yourself do, and see how it impacts Jason. How incredible to see – I can track this in myself. And then I do the thing that she’s been asking for, that actually sounds like it felt better to you too, instead of pulling farther away. And then you were connected.
Violet (21:45.698)
Yeah, and I think for me, it’s been a lot of internal work around what are my triggers and recognizing I’m kind of replicating my dad’s energy in my family of origin. We have similar family of origin where our dads are a little more volatile and expressive, for lack of a better word, and our moms are more distant on both sides.
And so that was painful to recognize that I was just repeating that. But I’d catch myself in these little moments thinking, he left his socks on the floor outside of the shower. Is that really necessary? Because I’m a bit more of a neat freak. But then also realizing, wow, I get to see the shape of his foot in his socks.
And it’s like a mark that he was here and we don’t know what’s gonna come. Like I could die tomorrow, he could die tomorrow. And so celebrating the sweetness and the messiness of the partnership and intimacy, including dirty socks left on the floor, instead of being a murder or well, fine, I’ll pick them up, but then I’m gonna resent him for it.
And just last weekend or a few days ago, I had wanted him to clean up some of the stuff outside for a housewarming party and I thought, you know what? I can sweep the porch. He doesn’t have to sweep the porch. Yes, the outside is more his responsibility, but I can do it.
So I’m able to more easily catch myself instead of fixating on a detail to take a broader perspective. Cause at that moment I thought, but he also paid for our dog’s surgery and he also did these things… And it sounds very stereotypical transactional, like the man paid for this thing and therefore I’m cleaning the patio. But my work has been instead of getting myopic, and martyr energy, to take a broader view and recognize all the ways he is showing his love for me and he is really committed.
Shana James (23:37.269)
It’s like when you are about to buy a car, say you want to buy a Volkswagen and then you see all the VWs. So you start to look at how he has been showing me love instead of how hasn’t he been showing me love, and what are all the things he’s not doing?
I think that’s the sweetest description I’ve ever heard of socks on the floor, that it is like somebody’s footprint, and the reality that we don’t know how long we have. You don’t know how long we’re all going to be here at our age. People are dropping in ways that are quite terrifying.
So to get to turn that around and choose that. It’s a choice. It’s not a choice what arises, I don’t think, but I think it is a choice how we interpret it, and then how we bring it to somebody.
Violet (24:29.579)
Absolutely. I also noticed that my contempt of him, or resentment, was very easily getting picked up on by our daughter.
We went through this phase where she was like, I hate you daddy. I don’t want to be with you.
And part of it is because she and I just have this perhaps unhealthy, but very, very close merged attachment. But I realized too, that I have to be responsible for my thoughts and feelings about Jason. Cause not only does it impact him, and make him want to withdraw, but it also impacts her in a totally energetic level. I was never complaining about him or doing any of those things, but it was making a difference.
Shana James (25:06.227)
That’s incredible. I’m just thinking about that with kids, and how complicated it is when kids come into the picture and how relationships change. How old is your daughter?
Jason & Violet (25:17.953)
She’s almost five.
Shana James (25:19.431)
Sweet. And you have one on the way! That’s exciting. Congratulations.
Jason & Violet (25:24.033)
Thank you.
Shana James (25:27.303)
Okay, again, I’m feeling so grateful that you two are willing, as experts in this field to say that you’re not experts because you are perfect at this. You’re experts because you are committed to tracking yourselves, witnessing these dynamics and bringing more consciousness to being human and being in a relationship together.
Jason & Violet (25:50.697)
Yeah, absolutely. I want to celebrate one other little thing. Just this past weekend, we were going to a kid’s birthday party for one of Jason’s friends’ kids. And I had made the food, gotten the gifts together, had Ruby write the happy birthday cards and all the things. And I could feel myself getting frustrated and feeling overextended, or like: it’s his friends and I’m doing all the things, was my inner narrative.
And he probably noticed that and he said, as we were leaving, thank you so much for getting the gifts together. I really appreciate that. And all my animosity just disappeared. It was like, I feel seen. I feel seen! Thank you. So he’s picking up on things.
Although I have, in times past, said I really want to be acknowledged for this and this. I have told him the words I need to hear. But I guess I would describe it as a flow moment. Our patterns are still there, but we’re having more flow moments.
Shana James (26:44.361)
Amazing, yeah. Which I think is the upward spiral – as we’re more conscious about these patterns and you track them you can bypass that downward spiral. Then there’s more energy to go into that upward spiral of flow.
You’re giving amazing practices: noticing your inner narrative, checking yourself when you’re getting resentful, asking for appreciation, hanging out and waiting a little bit or reminding about the ways you’re being loved.
And on your side, Jason, you’re also noticing how you’re withdrawing, what your patterns are, how you can actually come to her in a way that she would really appreciate. That’s a ton right there.
Amazing. Anything else you can share about how you’re practicing?
Violet (27:49.015)
There was a while where we did have a more official date night, where we would do relational practices. We still do that sometimes. We’ve just been very busy with the move. but having time like set aside for a relationship.
And in 2018, we were really going through a tough time. We had a weekly clearing the air where we would talk about our resentments, or anything we were carrying or holding onto, and that seemed to really help.
We are both staunch believers in the importance of having solo time – time where we’re not together, time where I’m with friends, and he’s with friends. I call these self dates or pleasure dates, where I’m going to a museum by myself, or I’m doing something by myself.
I need that. I’m very social, but I can’t be around people 24-7. And I have to be accountable to bring something to the relationship, right? Like if I’m just coasting as an individual, how good of a partner am I gonna really be?
Because how much energy and love and novelty can I bring? It’s not always easy, but we definitely try to celebrate each other, spend time with others, or do stuff for ourselves.
Jason:
I would say that was one of the things that first drew me to her is that as I transitioned out of this other relationship I thought, my next partner definitely has to have her own support system – in terms of friends, therapists, practices, all that kind of stuff. And she definitely has that.
And we both cultivated that with a lot of intention. I think part of what an edge for me.
We have one kid, have another one on the way. We’re both entrepreneurs. You know this life.
There’s not a ton of free time, and there’s not necessarily a ton of free time for your relationship.
And it’s the shift to, sometimes it might be an hour a week, where we can actually just drop in and put our attention on each other. And so it’s my responsibility to take care of my nervous system. So I can show up in that hour and actually have enough energy and presence…
Shana James (30:18.485)
Ooh, that is huge. Yes.
Jason & Violet (30:21.911)
…available for connection. That’s been something I’ve had to really start to see lately – that when I’m under resourced, when I haven’t actually taken enough time to recharge myself, I’ll try to get the fake version of it, the sugar version I call it, of being on my phone, or staying up a little too late, watching another show when I don’t need to. And then I get more tired. And then when it’s time, I’m not actually available. I’m catatonic on the couch, like, can we just watch a show tonight?
There’s not much of me there for connection. And so it’s something I think I’ve had to get a lot better about. I think we do really prioritize each other. And it’s not easy. I lead retreats, or go on retreat for myself with men like three or four times a year, which puts a huge burden on her to be with our daughter and take care of the house. But so far, it’s been worth it because then I come back a little restored and able to be more present with my daughter.
And seeing the ways that, wow, I’m gonna really have to take some time for myself sometimes. So yesterday, I went on a big hike and it was great, with a guy in my men’s group. And I come back resourced, and now when we have time I can actually be with you, rather than being so exhausted that I don’t have anything to give you.
I think that’s a hard pill to swallow in a sense. I see, with a lot of clients I work with, they don’t want to own that. I ask, what’s happening in your nervous system when you are together? Are you so anxious or tired or just not even able to be there?
And that shift, I think, for me, like she said, it’s my responsibility to have something left in the tank to bring to our time together.
Shana James (32:15.989)
That’s amazing. I think it’s hard to see that one. Like you said, it’s not easy being an entrepreneur, a parent – there are all these things we’re doing. And yet if we’re not prioritizing each other enough to say, hey, during that one hour a week, I’m going to come with my tank at least full -ish enough that I can listen to you, that I can appreciate you, that I can be present… instead of, ugh, I’m drained, our kid’s driving me nuts, this is crazy, life is nuts, right? That’s a sacred moment, a sacred time.
Violet (32:41.762)
Absolutely. I’ve seen that with myself and with my clients too, especially during times of stress.
We think, I don’t have time for sex. I don’t have time for connection. It’s not a priority to me right now. And it’s not always sex for women, but I feel like we sometimes feel smug or entitled. Like, he hasn’t earned that, and I don’t want to bring that in, and it’s not a priority, and he hasn’t loaded the dishes or there’s a lot of story around why we won’t be physically available for our partnership?
And I’ve noticed sometimes being in that place, instead of thinking, the reason I don’t feel physically available is because when’s the last time I fantasized? When’s the last time I did a self -pleasure practice? When’s the last time I took a bath and felt relaxed in my body?
Being sexually generous, I think, is a devotional practice that we can offer our partners regardless of our gender identity. But can I be resourced enough to be sexually generous with my partner?
Shana James (34:01.833)
Beautiful. And I think it can also go back to asking for, hey, if I could have this hour for myself, to go take a bath or do a self pleasure practice or something, I know I would have more to bring back to you tomorrow night on our date or whatever. Would you be willing to help? That kind of coordination and not just settling for, I don’t have any time. Instead of struggling and doing it on my own, as a strong independent woman.
These are awesome. Thank you so much for sharing all of this. And I can imagine someone listening, having so many things to think about ,and so many ways to practice, hearing you.
Yeah, anything else you want to leave us with before we guide people to find you?
Jason & Violet (35:05.193)
I’ve been on this metaphor for the last couple of weeks, I think, because it’s part of our journey was that intensity we talked about it, of falling in love or getting swept off your feet.
When you think about it, it’s pretty crazy because in falling I have no control. It’s kind of a weird thing versus – I think where we’re at in our relationship in my experience is it’s like we’ve kind of earned and created the love in a sense, in that process of rupture and repair.
Every time we repair it’s like we’re weaving another thread and our tapestry keeps getting stronger, and more together, and more resilient, which paradoxically means I trust our ability to move through conflict even more so. It’s less frightening to move into conflict.
It’s like, we’ve been disconnected before. We’ve had fights before. So there’s a deeper relaxation and trust that I’m experiencing coming forward. We’ve pretty much navigated everything that’s come our way. So anything scary I think we can deal with, right?
So there doesn’t have to be that extra level of bracing of like: My God, what might happen? It can just be, okay, if anything happens, we can work through it and we have the tools and the resources around us now to do it.
Shana James (36:31.743)
We got this. Amazing. Thank you.
Jason & Violet (36:39.396)
All I would say is thanks for doing this podcast. think it’s such a good service to the world that love is a practice, and relationship is a practice. It doesn’t just happen.
And just like any practice, it takes continual intention. I don’t say work. It takes awareness. And I think a lot of times we, as a society, put our energy into things like our work or our family or our projects. And then we just kind of expect our relationships to thrive.
Shana James (37:06.645)
Totally.
Jason & Violet (37:06.788)
And then when they don’t, we’re like, I picked the wrong partner or they’re just like my parent, but it would be like only doing your work two hours a week and expecting to still get your paycheck.
Shana James (37:17.855)
Right, expecting it. Or not taking care of your kid and expecting them to grow up in a way that’s actually healthy and a good contribution to society, right? There’s nothing else I think we do where we expect it to just happen as much as relationships.
Jason & Violet (37:42.757)
Yeah, it takes an active tending of the fire of what’s between us.
Shana James (37:51.775)
Thank you.
Where can people find more of you?
Jason & Violet (37:57.31)
We work with couples at a website called evolutionary couples dot us. And that’s where we have a program where we do live calls and Pre-recorded content.
It’s called 12 epic dates and it’s mapped out everything from polarity to finances to clearing resentments to adventure. So, evolutionary couples dot us is a great place to start if you’re in partnership. Other places you can go or my website is violetlange .com but it has not been updated in a few years so probably better to just email me if you have any questions which is violet @ violetlange .com.
And for men out there I work primarily with men at evolutionary .men, and do all kinds of men’s groups and shadow work and dating and relationships stuff.
It’s a pretty exciting time for us because it’s the first time we’ve created something together and brought our two two worlds together so to speak, and the program we’re creating for couples is pretty much sourced for couples who only have an hour or two a week to put towards your relational unit – so how do you maximize that time, as you know parents and entrepreneurs and busy people? What’s the structure that’s gonna lead to connection and depth?
Because that’s about all we’ve been able to carve out in these last years, but it’s enough. When you do it and you have the right practices, it really can be enough.
Shana James (39:27.711)
Agreed. Thank you so much for being here.
Jason & Violet (39:31.844)
Thank you for having us.
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