In this candid and sometimes provocative conversation, intimacy expert Susan Bratton and I explore what becomes possible when women stop hiding what they want and men stop seeing desire as something they have to control, manage, or perform around.
Find out how to have the best love and sex of your life!
What Women Wish Men Knew About Sex, Desire, and Connection: Show Notes
Most men were never taught how to navigate a woman’s desires. In fact, many were taught to fear them. In this candid and sometimes provocative conversation, intimacy expert Susan Bratton and I explore what becomes possible when women stop hiding what they want and men stop seeing desire as something they have to control, manage, or perform around.
Susan has spent decades helping people create what she calls “heart-connected, conscious, passionate lovemaking.” Together we explore why great sex isn’t about performance, techniques, or getting it right. It’s about presence, self-expression, emotional safety, and the courage to tell the truth.
We talk about:
- The difference between conscious lovemaking and performative sex
- Why many women struggle to express what they truly want
- How a woman’s desires can become a roadmap rather than something to fear
- What happens when partners stop trying to control each other and start co-creating
- How heart connection creates deeper intimacy and better sex
- Why asking for what you want is one of the greatest gifts you can give a partner
- The surprising ways long-term relationships stay alive, erotic, and connected
Susan shares stories from her own life, relationships, and decades of teaching that challenge conventional ideas about sex, intimacy, and partnership.
While some parts of this conversation are refreshingly direct and adult in nature, the deeper invitation is one we all need: to stop performing, start telling the truth, and create relationships where we can be fully known and fully loved.
If you’ve ever wondered how to create deeper connection, more satisfying intimacy, or a relationship where desire can be spoken openly, this conversation is for you.
Links:
Connect with Susan
Connect with Shana James
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Bio:
Sexpert, author and TV celebrity, Susan Bratton is a champion and advocate for everyone who craves a passionate relationship.
Transcript:
Shana James (00:00)
Hello and welcome to this episode of Practicing Love. I’m your host, Shana James.
I’m so excited to be here today with a woman I’ve known for probably 20 years at this point. Susan Bratton is an intimacy expert to millions, and she also likes to call herself a trusted sex advisor. So you’re in for a treat today.
We did another episode together on Man Alive years ago — which I’ll link to — and back then we talked about… was it 14 different kinds of orgasms or 17?
Susan Bratton (00:29)
Now there are 20. And the 20th one is a wild card.
I actually just had a “nuzzlegasm,” which was an interesting new one.
Once you become orgasmic, you can come from pretty much anything. I’ve had some brand-new orgasms recently that I’d never experienced before.
Shana James (00:32)
Amazing. Amazing.
So it just keeps opening, right? There’s no end.
People talk about how enlightenment isn’t the end. Becoming orgasmic isn’t the end either — it’s just the beginning.
So now you have a little flavor of what we’re going to talk about today.
We’re also going to talk about heart connection, how confusing it can be, and the desire many of us have — often, though not exclusively, those of us in more feminine expressions — to feel that deeper heart connection in sex and intimacy.
There are times when our partners look at us and say, “What are you even talking about? I don’t know what you mean.”
When I used to lead the Authentic Woman Experience, we would do exercises with both men and women. The women would often say things like, “I want to feel more connected.”
And the men would respond, “Can you give me something a little more specific? Can you help me understand what that means? I don’t know how to just pop open my heart.”
So I’m excited to hear from you today about your experiments in love and sex, what you’ve discovered, and how you help people create that kind of heart connection.
Anything you want to say to start — about how you got into this work or why this topic is exciting to you — I’ll leave it up to you.
Susan Bratton (02:03)
Sure.
I’ve always said that whether people call me a trusted hot sex advisor to millions or an intimacy expert doesn’t really matter. One title is a little sexier, and one is a little more palatable to people who are still carrying shame around sexuality.
But what I’ve been doing throughout the decades that you and I have known each other is opening myself to pleasure, becoming more orgasmic, having a lot of experiences, and publishing the work of my mentors.
I’ve also written 34 books and programs of my own, and I’m about to launch the third edition of one of those books.
So really, I’ve been running a publishing company for decades.
I have a couple of brands. One is called Better Lover. Another is the Steamy Sex Ed Video Collection.
Everything I publish is essentially a recipe book for what I call — and have called for decades — heart-connected, conscious, passionate lovemaking.
And what that really means to me is being non-performative.
I think that in many cases, when we’re learning about sex — whether it’s tantra, kink, BDSM, or any other modality — or when we’re watching movies, reading erotica, or watching porn, we’re seeing sexuality through a performative, patriarchal lens.
It’s rooted in religious repression. It’s rooted in the subjugation of women.
And it misses the heart-connected part.
It’s more like friction than connection.
And the conscious piece — like when you had Kevin Anthony on recently and he was talking about presence — what does that actually mean?
That’s heart connection.
That’s consciousness.
It’s being here.
I’m not dissociated. I’m fully present with you.
Shana James (03:46)
Yes.
I’m actually with you — not with some fantasy or performance.
Susan Bratton (04:06)
Exactly.
What I’ve really been teaching over the years is orgasmic expansion for people across the gender spectrum—whether they have vulvas or penises.
It’s about how to orgasm really well, how to be deeply connected, how to surrender to each other.
And all of that culminates in something I call a Dope Flow Sex Date.
What that really means is shedding all of the masculine-feminine constructs.
I feel like we are all of those things.
We contain all of it.
As I’ve evolved — through more partners, more experiences, more practices, greater orgasmic potential, more communication skills — I find myself less interested in role-playing dynamics like:
“I’m the dominant.”
“I’m the submissive.”
“You take charge.”
“I’ll surrender.”
Those frameworks don’t interest me as much anymore.
Shana James (04:54)
Interesting.
What takes their place?
Because I also talk a lot about consciousness, connection, and heart in sex.
Kevin talked quite a bit about masculine and feminine dynamics, and I can definitely get on board with that. I’ve had other coaches and practitioners talk about it as well.
It can be a really helpful framework for understanding ourselves.
Susan Bratton (05:27)
It’s a great beginner’s ramp.
Shana James (05:30)
Yes.
And there are people who take that work into depths I haven’t explored myself.
But I also agree with you that eventually we don’t have to choose one or the other.
We get to play.
We get to dance.
And it sounds like you’ve been exploring all of it.
Susan Bratton (05:49)
Yes.
I like to think about it as flow. That’s why I call it a flow date.
I think about it as partnership.
I think about it as being ruthlessly sexually self-expressed.
I want it to be co-creative. Spontaneous.
Because as you learn sexual skills, communication skills, pleasuring techniques, and even how to embody masculine and feminine polarities, eventually you gain the ability to simply be who you are.
Without filters.
Without scripts.
Without constantly thinking.
You can ask for what you want.
You can make offers.
You can feel what your body desires.
You can listen to your partner’s desires.
And together, you can go wherever the moment wants to take you.
A lot of people talk about being a switch.
“I’m not masculine.”
“I’m not feminine.”
“I’m a switch.”
And I think, okay, that’s another step on the journey.
First you learn how to surrender.
Or you learn how to lead.
Then you learn how to switch.
And eventually you move into flow and partnership.
Shana James (06:58)
A natural evolution.
Susan Bratton (07:05)
Exactly.
Then it becomes:
What does my body want today, with you, in this moment?
There are no roles.
No preconceived notions.
No constructs.
I’m in a pure, raw, ecstatic, moment-by-moment state with you.
And we’re making it up as we go.
That’s where I am in my evolution right now.
And I don’t know what’s beyond that yet.
But I’ll let you know after another decade of knowing you.
Shana James (07:12)
Yes.
Susan Bratton (07:35)
Because I’m sure there’s more.
There’s always more.
If sex were a brand and it had a tagline, it would be:
“There’s always something more.”
Shana James (07:45)
I love that.
And it speaks to my experience with my partner too.
It’s co-creative. It’s surprising. It’s alive in the moment.
And it’s also about letting go of the shame that says, “Anything I want isn’t okay.”
Instead, every desire, every longing, every curiosity can be brought to a partner consciously.
Then it can be explored. Played with. Co-created.
We don’t always have the same desires or capacities.
But when we can talk about them and share them from the depth of our hearts, so much becomes possible.
Susan Bratton (08:30)
Yes.
And it’s interesting because I’ve been married to Tim — you know Tim, you’ve known him for decades — for almost 35 years.
We’ve also been in an open marriage for nearly 25 years.
I’ve had long-term partners in addition to my husband.
One partner was in my life for almost a decade.
My current partner and I have been together for five years.
He and my husband are best friends.
We travel together.
We’re very close.
And every now and then I meet someone I’d like to be intimate with and have a shorter-term relationship with as well.
I’m only sharing this because I want to talk about a recent experience I had, and what I learned from it.
Not because I’m here to advocate for ethical non-monogamy.
I don’t recommend it for most people.
That’s not the point of this conversation.
Shana James (09:52)
No, it takes an incredible degree of consciousness, communication, emotional intelligence, and personal responsibility.
You’ve done a tremendous amount of work.
I know that.
Susan Bratton (09:59)
I have.
And because I’m willing to stay in growth, uncertainty, discomfort, and the ongoing work of love, I can operate at this level.
But that’s not really what I’m here to talk about.
What I wanted to share was a recent love experiment that turned out to be a fascinating and revealing experience.
Shana James (10:16)
Yes.
Okay.
I love that it’s story time — but sexy story time. And it’s also conscious and connected, right?
How do we have more of this connection and lovemaking?
Susan Bratton (10:33)
(Laughing)
Yeah.
One of the things I like about being in an open relationship is that, first and foremost, I’m sexually sovereign.
I call it being agentic — having agency over my sexuality.
Especially now, when we’re in this era of agentic AI and sex tech, which is actually another topic I would’ve loved to talk to you about today. My adventures in sex tech are absolutely lit, Shana.
But we can save that for another time.
Shana James (11:03)
I feel like we touched on that last time too, so I’ll link that episode. And then we’ll definitely do another one at some point.
Susan Bratton (11:09)
Okay, but there’s so much more, girl. So much more.
I’ve been doing some really fun things.
But anyway, I think about myself as someone who has agency over her sexuality.
I walk through the world sexually self-confident, well-cummed, and free to have desires for people beyond the two people I spend the bulk of my time with. Because I get to decide who I want to be sexual with.
This sense of agency allows me to keep my radar up for experiences that might expand me, help me grow, and ultimately allow me to do a better job as a trusted hot sex advisor to millions.
And, of course, I get to have some fun experiences too.
I speak at a lot of health conferences, and about a year and a half ago I was speaking at one where I met a nice man.
As we were saying goodbye, he gave me a hug.
And my body immediately went:
“Who dis?”
What was that?
He wasn’t trying to give me a memorable hug. It wasn’t performative. But the way he touched me, the way his body fit mine, the way my body responded to his body — I couldn’t forget it.
I thought about that hug all year.
Then I went back to speak at the same conference the following year and found myself thinking:
“I hope that guy’s here.”
I’d really like another one of those hugs.
Shana James (12:14)
Hmm.
Susan Bratton (12:40)
And he was there.
One of my best friends was with me, and he came over to talk.
We chatted, had dinner together, and it was funny because I had just gotten off stage and was carrying my little bag full of sex toys and educational materials.
Shana James (12:57)
(Laughing)
Susan Bratton (12:58)
I literally had a bag of dildos in one hand and an STI testing kit in the other.
And completely spontaneously, I said:
“I’d like to get to know you better. I’d like to have some kind of experience with you.”
And he said:
“I’d like to get to know you better too. That sounds really good.”
So I asked if he’d like to come visit me in San Francisco.
He said yes.
Then I looked down at the STI test in my hand and said:
“Well, I happen to have an STI test right here in my bag of dildos. Would you be willing to take it?”
And he did.
Shana James (13:23)
Nice.
Susan Bratton (13:28)
I’m serious about sexual health.
I’m not getting anything. It’s a disaster out there.
There can be long-term consequences from some of these infections, and I’m not willing to take those risks.
So he took the STI test, and we made a plan.
We basically said:
“If it doesn’t work out, you can go home whenever you want. If it does work out, fantastic.”
My husband was away, my boyfriend doesn’t live nearby, and so we spent time together.
We worked.
We cooked.
We rode bikes.
We went hiking.
We made love.
We went out to dinner.
We had a fantastic time.
And what was interesting was that he kept wondering:
“Where is this going?”
And I said:
“I don’t know. Let’s just call each other adventure partners.”
Let’s have this experience.
But let’s have it lovingly.
Shana James (14:27)
One thing I’m loving about this is that it’s exactly what I’ve been writing about.
I’m working on an Honest Dating Manual, and one of the foundational principles is that you don’t have to know where something is going.
Dating can be a process of discovery.
If you can consciously communicate with the person you’re with, you get to discover:
Who are we to each other?
Are we lovers?
Partners?
Friends?
Collaborators?
Instead of immediately asking:
“Are you the one?”
Or:
“Are you the one for this very specific role in my life?”
And if you’re not, then you get dismissed.
Susan Bratton (14:57)
I know.
That’s such old thinking.
Let’s retire that.
Exactly.
One of the things I wanted from him was for him to open his heart.
Shana James (15:06)
Okay.
Susan Bratton (15:10)
I’ve spent my whole life building my heart muscle.
Do you remember Deborah Anapol and The Seven Natural Laws of Love?
One of those laws is that loving actually generates more love than receiving it.
Love grows through the act of loving.
It’s a practice.
For me, it took a long time to learn that.
I grew up with an insecure attachment style. I’d been hurt. I’d been disappointed. I’d been burned.
Honestly, I was probably married to Tim for 10 or 15 years before I fully surrendered and loved him completely.
I was miserly with my love.
And I think a lot of people are.
Some people have been betrayed.
Some people have been hurt.
They don’t want to go through that pain again.
So they protect themselves.
But I’ve worked through enough of that now that I want to play full out.
I want to love fully.
I want to express love fully.
Even if someone is only going to be in my house for 24 hours.
Let’s love each other.
Why not?
Shana James (16:18)
Right.
Even if it’s a one-night stand.
How do you fully open your heart to another person and love?
So when you said that to him, what happened?
Was he confused?
Was he open to it?
Susan Bratton (16:24)
I actually said:
“I want you to practice this.”
And to his credit, he really tried.
He genuinely tried to be loving.
What was also interesting is that he was 22 years younger than I am.
Part of what attracted him to me was that he wanted to experience being with someone who had a lot of sexual experience.
He was curious.
He wanted to learn.
He wanted to experience what I desired.
And I could see him working to open his heart.
But it was hard for him.
Shana James (17:23)
For people in long-term relationships, are there things you asked for or practices you explored with him that people could bring back into their own relationships?
Regardless of what kind of relationship they’re in?
Susan Bratton (17:38)
Yes.
One of the things I teach a lot of men is what I call the heart-cock connection.
One thing he was very focused on — as many men are — was intercourse.
He wanted to make me orgasm.
He wanted to hear me moan.
But he didn’t have many other skills yet.
And he didn’t have many of the softer skills.
Shana James (18:04)
Okay.
So it sounds like it was a little more focused on physical sex and performance—which isn’t wrong—but less focused on the heart-connected lovemaking you were wanting.
Susan Bratton (18:13)
Exactly.
So I told him:
“You need to connect your heart to your cock.”
It’s not a piston.
I don’t want to be jackhammered.
I want you to feel every part of me.
I don’t want to be penetrated right away.
I want to be slowly made love to.
I want to be held.
I want us to laugh together.
I want us to massage each other.
I want deep kissing.
I want eye contact.
I want yoni massage.
I want oral pleasure.
And honestly, like many people, he wasn’t very comfortable with some of those things because he simply didn’t have much experience with them.
That’s common.
It’s not unusual.
Shana James (18:57)
When I imagine women who have been in 20- or 30-year relationships and are feeling the monotony, the fading, the loss of spark…
Most of them aren’t massaging each other.
Most of them aren’t laughing together in bed.
Most of them aren’t receiving yoni massage.
Most of them aren’t with partners who have connected their hearts to their cocks.
And I think many women don’t even know what’s possible.
That’s why I love hearing you paint this picture of what lovemaking can be.
Joyful.
Connected.
Heart-opening.
Co-creative.
I really want people to hear how possible this is.
Susan Bratton (19:11)
The monotony of monogamy.
They’re often just ejaculating inside each other.
Shana James (19:25)
Exactly.
And for people in long-term monogamous relationships, I think the bigger question is:
How do you continue loving?
How do you continue offering affection, touch, and openness instead of becoming miserly with your love?
Especially when there’s tension.
Most people haven’t learned how to do that.
Instead, it becomes tit-for-tat.
“I’ll withhold this because you withheld that.”
“We have to resolve this issue before we can be loving again.”
But you and I both know that isn’t actually true.
Susan Bratton (20:17)
Here’s my approach to it.
This is what I’ve been doing with Tim Bratton for 35 years.
We’ve been through thick and thin together. We’ve almost gotten divorced. We’ve completely lost all our money and gone broke. I almost died from COVID. You remember how sick I was. It took me years to recover, and I’m still dealing with the aftermath.
But he’s my person for life.
He’s allowed to make mistakes.
He’s allowed to royally screw things up.
And I’m going to love him through it.
I’m going to practice my own expansion and growth. I’m going to stay in painful conversations. I’m going to let things rest when they need to rest. I’m going to give him time to work through things, just as he gives me time.
That’s how you do it.
It’s a long-term commitment.
He’s my person for life.
And because of that, we’ve made it through all kinds of things together.
Shana James (21:09)
I think that’s such a beautiful point.
Part of being an adult is allowing our partners to make mistakes.
Instead of responding with, “You hurt me, so now I’m going to hurt you,” we ask:
How can we grow through this together?
How can we love each other more?
How can we learn more?
How can we open our hearts even further?
Susan Bratton (21:28)
Exactly.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
And there was one last thing I wanted to share about my erotic adventure partner.
At one point he said:
“You don’t really need to tell me what you want during sex. You can just relax and surrender, and I’ll take care of everything.”
And that was interesting because I tend to be very expressive.
I’d say things like:
“Hey, what if we play with my breasts while I stroke your cock, and then we make out, and then maybe we do some oral, and then we definitely should have sex…”
I was offering menus.
Ideas.
Possibilities.
And he didn’t like that because he felt like I was telling him what to do.
And I thought:
“Are you kidding me?”
You can always say:
“That sounds fun, but I’d rather do this.”
Or:
“I love that idea, but I have another one.”
What I realized was that I didn’t want to surrender.
I’m not “the feminine.”
I’m a human being.
I have ideas.
Aren’t you here to learn things?
Shana James (22:23)
Yes.
And what I hear underneath that is:
“I don’t really want to know what turns you on. I want to do sex to you.”
It doesn’t sound connected.
It doesn’t sound co-creative.
Susan Bratton (22:36)
No.
It’s egoic.
Totally egoic.
It’s:
“I want to be in charge.”
“You can’t tell me what to do.”
“I’ll be the boss here.”
And that limits my sexual self-expression.
It limits my ability to share my desires.
Shana James (22:50)
Yes.
Susan Bratton (22:52)
You’re limiting what I can say about what I want.
Shana James (22:56)
Did you try to have a conversation about that?
Because I know you’re very skilled at having conscious conversations.
Was it more of a discussion where you said:
“Wow, this doesn’t work for me.”
“This feels controlling.”
“This doesn’t feel good.”
Or did you realize you were simply too different?
Susan Bratton (23:15)
There’s one more piece that relates directly to this.
What I’m really hoping is that your listeners become aware of the ways they may be unintentionally shutting their partners down rather than opening them up.
For me, one of the things I need is reassurance.
I like a lot of encouragement and reassurance.
Part of that comes from my childhood. Part of it comes from having ADHD. But I know myself well enough to know that reassurance helps me feel safe.
One of the games I teach couples is called Three Things I Love About You.
Tell me three things you love about me.
As I start to relax and become aroused, I genuinely want to hear what you appreciate about me.
Hearing those things helps me settle into my body.
It helps me feel safe.
It helps me feel connected.
Shana James (23:41)
I love that.
Yes.
Susan Bratton (24:07)
But he didn’t like it when I asked.
He said:
“It kind of ruins it for me. If you ask me to tell you, and then I tell you, it feels fake.”
Shana James (24:09)
It doesn’t feel authentic to him.
Susan Bratton (24:25)
Exactly.
And I said:
“It feels authentic to me if the things you’re saying are actually true.”
If they’re real, and I’m asking for them because I need them in that moment, I’d love for you to give them to me.
And he said:
“Well, I want to give them to you when I want to give them to you.”
But he didn’t.
And that’s the difference.
Shana James (24:28)
If they’re authentic things you’re saying, then yes.
And honestly, part of me is thinking:
He’s not a great lover for you.
Not because he’s a bad person, but because he wasn’t willing to understand what helps you feel connected and loved.
Susan Bratton (24:47)
Exactly.
He wasn’t willing to let me ask for what I wanted.
Shana James (24:52)
It’s one thing to say:
“I don’t like this.”
Or:
“This makes me uncomfortable.”
But in a partnership, the next question becomes:
What’s happening for me here?
And if this is something that genuinely matters to my partner, how can I be generous?
Not in a self-sacrificing way.
But in a loving way.
How can we create something together?
Susan Bratton (25:17)
Exactly.
Because once you’re with a woman who doesn’t sugarcoat things…
A woman who asks for what she wants…
A woman who’s easy to love because she’s honest…
A woman who loves the hell out of you…
You get to know what she wants.
And then you get to give it to her.
You get to be her hero.
You get to win.
You get her respect.
You get the delight of her full appetite.
You get novelty.
You get growth.
You get adventure.
And she’ll never leave you because you truly know her.
You love her for exactly who she is.
She’s constantly evolving, growing, and becoming.
And you’re right there with her.
Shana James (26:01)
Mic drop.
That is amazing.
That’s exactly what I wanted to hear.
Because I think many men are intimidated by that.
Women’s desires can feel overwhelming.
A lack of control can feel threatening.
But what you’re describing is the opposite.
When you truly meet a woman there…
When you know her that deeply…
When she feels heard, understood, appreciated, cared for, and loved…
You create a bond unlike anything else.
Why would she want to go anywhere else?
Thank you.
Thank you so much for this conversation, and for all the wisdom and teaching you’re bringing into the world.
Susan Bratton (26:32)
That’s why I’m still here with Sir Tim 35 years later.
(Laughing)
It was my pleasure.
I love talking with you because you operate at such a high level.
You truly understand what I’m saying.
We’re aligned in our values, in how we love people, and especially in how much we care about men and want good things for them.
We’re both champions for men.
And I felt very supported to tell the truth today.
I felt safe being fully myself with you.
And I think that safety comes from the love and respect we’ve built over all these years.
Shana James (26:47)
That means a lot to hear.
I’m really happy you felt that.
Where can people find you?
I know you have things everywhere, but where would you like people to start?
Susan Bratton (27:21)
Go to BetterLover.com and sign up for my twice-weekly Hot Sex Tips newsletter.
And if you have questions for me, simply reply to any email.
I personally answer them myself.
Shana James (27:34)
That’s amazing.
Susan Bratton (27:34)
It really is.
So feel free to AMA — ask me anything.
You can also find me on Instagram.
It’s simply Susan Bratton — all one word.
S-U-S-A-N B-R-A-T-T-O-N.
Come say hello.
Shana James (27:48)
Wonderful.
I’ll put all the links in the show notes.
Thank you so much.
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